I sent Marty a long PM, but in reference to what Leslie just said about allergies, I want to publicly post my experience. I have 5 dogs and 3 cats (that I own-we all know more live w/me :crazy. Of my 8 priciples, only 3 have been vaccinated. Of those 3, one has epilepsy, one has IBS, and one is allergic to metal, some plastics, some insect bites, any grain, and is partly incontinent due to a butchered spay. She also has to eat tiny meals or she blows up like a balloon b/c her intestines are "kinked" for lack of a better word from yanking out a whole slew of reproductive organs through a 2 inch incision. :madNo, I don't spay or neuter, but she was from a shelter.) It's a huge PITA. Good news is that for some reason, raw w/bone goes through usually w/out a problem. Any kibble stops her up for days, and then she spend several more days expelling it. Poor Mia.

So, anyway, I don't believe in coincidences to the point that 5 completely healthy animals with zero issues whatsoever vs. 3 animals with fairly serious afflictions can be seen for anything but what it is: the difference between "naturally reared" animals and victims of money-grubbing butchers. Sadly, I avoid vets at nearly all costs, and if I have to go, I make sure over the phone that they know I will not consent to any vaccines. I just found a country vet about an hour and fifteen minutes away who supposedly doesn't do anything but what you ask for...we shall see.

Anyway, perhaps the most heartbreaking thing about the death of Smoke is that it could've been prevented if more people knew about vaccinosis and recognized it for what it is. How many animals die every day and their deaths are blamed on something else?

I would really like to see vets held as accountable as medical doctors...perhaps they'd be a bit more conscientious if their insurance rates rose every time they screwed up.

 Quote: marty schwantes

... Im kind of worried because of my failure to take care of Smoke. anyway enough babbling I will not let this go untold to the FDA

It wasn't your failure, it was the vet's. It's terribly sad what happened to your puppy, I'm so sorry. I feel for how hard this is for you.

I wouldn't let this keep you from getting another puppy. I would read everything I could on ALL the links that Connie and others gave you, as well as read up on feeding your puppy a balanced natural RAW diet from the very beginning, which creates a strong immune system for your puppy:
http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/diet.htm

The breeder of my pup gave only a parvo/distemper vaccine before she sent him to me and advised I only use that particular 2-way vaccine. The vet I took him to for the 2nd set of vaccines gave him a 5-way vaccine, even though I VERY SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR PARVO/DISTEMPER ONLY and repeated that at least 2 more times. I didn't find out what they gave him until I brought him home and looked at the paperwork.

I was livid, especially when his right front leg started trembling after a rest in the crate (they also gave him a heartworm tablet at the same time), called and was told by the vet there is no such thing as just a parvo/distemper (WRONG!!!). Asked about the leg trembling and they dismissed it as your vet dismissed the real cause of your puppy's death. Note I had also advised the vet that my puppy had diarrhea at the time. He said it would be fine to vaccinate. I got so angry at myself for, once again, letting an idiot fool me (the first time was a doctor with my HUSBAND). My pup recovered, the leg only trembled for a few seconds, but you can imagine how that made me feel.

After this kind of experience with a vet, my next puppy will have no vaccines whatsoever. "I" will control the medical treatment my dogs get from now on. If I make a mistake, so be it. I'd rather I make the mistake than some vet who dismisses the owners of their dogs like we were fools and children who don't know better.

I am SO sorry for your loss. I almost lost my girl to the lepto vaccine three years ago -- thank God for benadryl and lots of it...

Every time I hear one of these stories, I regret putting that crap into my dog to begin with.

Marty

I want to express my sincerest sympathy!I am so sorry you lost your pup and are going through this.

Please do not beat yourself up over it, because you didn't know the facts. Like all of us, I once believed everything an MD or DVM told me. I would have never thought to question any of their recommendations. This was many years ago, and I have now learned to take responsibility for my health as well as my animals' health. One of my favorite quotes is by Maya Angelou "When you know better, you do better". It's absolutely the truth.

I would rather treat an acute illness, than spend a lifetime dealing with chronic disease. Dogs, cats and other animals that are vaccinated may never have a seizure or reaction as your pup did, but will very likely suffer a lifetime of chronic disease. It's not IF, but WHEN the issues show up.

It's funny almost, in a tragic sort of way, that everyone I talk to that has old dogs will tell you the same things. All old dogs have bad skin. All old dogs seem to get tumors of some sort. The list goes on. I never put the pieces together until joining this forum. I myself had a dog that had a severe allergic reaction after a 5-in-one vaccine, and yet blindly continued to do as the vets recommended and have my dogs vaccinated. Luckily my breeder of my current dog believed in the Jean Dodds Vaccine Protocol so he didn't get all the garbage. I am so glad that I am learning...

wow you guys are awesome an this has helped so much...Im getting more and more upset with the vet every minute...they did not have alot to say when I said I would be up there today to get a copy of Smoke tratment records and I wanted specific doses and manufature names...on a better note I called my breede back and explained to him that I do not feel it was genetics that killed him rather vaccinosis...he in a most excellent gesture offered me one of smokes brothers...pretty sure I iwll take him up on that...he did tel me that he did give the puppy distemper, parvo and corona shots when he was a pup but nothing else...is this a reason for cncearn or just let it be...I will be feeding him all raw and not vets unless he is injured..or does anyone have the opinion that it is already too late once they have any vaccines in them? I guess my thought was this was the same three way Smoke had and he was fine until the got the lethal vet cocktail...again thanks for all of your support and guidance!

The worst part about saying that vaccines cause problems is that we can't prove that they are the culprit, even though we are sure we know what killed our pets or made them sick for life.
If the animal walks out of the vet's office after the shot the vet's figure it wasn't the vaccine that caused the problem. Once they're home it was some other toxin, or bad genes, that caused the problem, they say.
What we need is a class action law suit or some long term studies to get the veterinary profession away from the needles.
The more we tell people about vaccinosis the sooner there will be a reform in the vaccination protocol, whether it be brought on by the vets stepping up to the plate (they will have to decide between the well-being of their patients or their puppy and annual booster revenue) or the pet owners refusing to allow their animals to be over vaccinated.
Since most people think a vet's word is law it will be an uphill battle.
If we keep our tragic stories to ourselves it will just prolong the misery brought on by over-vaccinating.

Marty, I would take up your breeder's offer of another puppy, since it is a wonderful gesture. Also, it would be special for you to have one of Smoke's brothers. I just would not vaccinate anymore.

As I said, my dog, now 15 mos, had the parvo/distemper and the later 2nd "cocktail" of vaccines. He is fine and healthy, intelligent and a firecracker, although I hope the future doesn't show signs of vaccine problems. But I'll face that with him if it comes.

I suspect there aren't many breeders that don't give the 1st set of vaccines before the pup leaves the premises. I know there are some, like Ed and Cindy who don't vaccinate, but probably not many, so it would be hard for you to find a dog you like from a breeder who doesn't vaccinate.

Hopefully more breeders will get on board and do their homework.

Sandy beat me. That was exactly what I was going to say.

I am fortunate enough to have one adopted dog who had nothing but one set of parvo and distember in puppyhood. (He lived in the boonies and he was surrendered directly to our training club .... long story.)

This is the healthiest dog I have ever owned. I am so used to adopting pre-owned dogs with chronic health challenges (especially allergies), but this guy, even though he was kinda stinky and itchy when he came, just did a 180-degree turnaround when he was switched from bad kibble to fresh raw food.

I can't prove it, but I sincerely believe that at least part of his vibrant health can be traced back to that extremely minimal vaccination protocol.

He's the one on the right.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1129/539519363_3489020bb9_o.jpg

Marty, when you get your puppy, we will want to hear about him/her!