Quote: connie sutherland

I don't know what I would say to the dentist. Maybe the truth, but maybe not. I don't know what would be the best thing to make a dent in her occupationally-skewed POV. Maybe I would say that I was still thinking about how to continue feeding a fresh raw diet ("because it's the most important thing, and I certainly would not sentence my dog to a lifetime of bags of dry cereal") while protecting his teeth, and that I didn't know yet whether it would be by feeding the cartilage-y soft backs, etc., or what.

Thanks Connie, that's really just what I needed. We left each other today just agreeing to disagree... but even that feels a little demoralizing sometimes - she is the "professional" after all... I obviously need to grow a thicker skin.

And your suggestions are good as well - after our move we now have access to a proper butcher (not just the butcher dept. of a grocery store) I can get BOATLOADS of pultry "parts", which include backs, necks, wing/leg bits, even gizzards for $.69 a pound! - so we're definitely feeding lots of those, and I don't even have to cut up the bird myself! Sourcing cheap red meat is always more difficult, but we were doing that anyway - I'll just be sure to cut out any bone chunks before I feed it. If I felt generous (which I won't after the root canal) I even have the option here of getting exotic meat from the butcher... I'd have to feel REEEAAALLY generous though, becuase at between $20 and $55 a pound, python, elk and bear meat is a pretty indulgent treat!!!

Will Oscar miss out on any nutrients that migh be found in the bones of hooved mammals, and not in poultry? Will the poultry bones be enought to keep his chompers clean? (Should I REALLY start BRUSHING them??)

~Natalya

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

Will Oscar miss out on any nutrients that migh be found in the bones of hooved mammals, and not in poultry?

No.

But different protein profiles are important (IMO).... and easily achieved with muscle meat from non-poultry.

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

(Should I REALLY start BRUSHING them??)

~Natalya

How are his teeth? Why did she say this? Are they collecting plaque even on raw?

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: natalya zahn

I didn't feel like I needed to be chastised for giving my dog an alternative (and I'd argue BETTER) diet.

Alternative?

You mean alternative to bags of eternal-shelf-life cereal?

THAT's the "alternative" diet.

Yeah but cancer, allergies and obesity aren't NEARLY as scary as shards of knife-sharp BONES! - and why worry about threats you can't clearly visualize for all of their horrific potential??!!

~Natalya

Natalya,

I am so sorry for your troubles. I had to visit a vet in a different province from home recently and I did not even tell them he was raw fed when they asked! I wasn't in the mood for the lecture!

I have pet insurance and I bet that one day insurance companies will not cover dogs that are raw fed!

I was at a fellow avi dog's house visiting his handler and I noticed that the dog had a fracture of his back molar! The handler had not noticed!!!

Ironically this dog is kibble fed, does not chew ice or nylabones or rocks??? The ironic part is that his vet still reccomends a raw diet to him! (she is raw friendly)

I would probalby only give your dog chicken bones for ever more. Connie's idea about using the softer chicken bones for RMB's and using ground for the rest is a good one I think.

Fingers and paws crossed for both of you...

 Quote: natalya zahn

... but even that feels a little demoralizing sometimes - she is the "professional" after all...

She's the professional dentist, not the professional canine nutritionist.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

How are his teeth? Why did she say this? Are they collecting plaque even on raw?

Honestly, I think they tell EVERY patient to brush their teeth... but for Oscar in particular - I think he does have some minimal plaque, but I think they're mighty clean on the whole. What I see actually appears on the sides of his canines, near the gumline... not sure what that means, or if it's normal... I thought raw would keep most of that stuff at bay, but maybe 100% clean is impossible, and they'd be even worse without the raw...

She herself didn't go into detail about me brushing his teeth, or whether he obviously or not needed it - it was her assistant, and it was more of a distraction for me while the dentist wrote up a quote for the surgery.

~Natalya

Thanks Jennifer - both the original vet and the "dentist" were quite suprised I knew about the break, which tooth it was, about when it happened, etc.... I was all concerned I hadn't noticed it SOONER! Guess a lot of people never look in there...

Pet insurance may be in our future yet - I swear I've spent more money in vet bills on this dog - and every time he needs sedation or medication, I have to pay for something that will work on all of his 95lbs!

Connie, just one more question - the dentist steered me away from capping the root canal, as it will nearly DOUBLE the already high price of the procedure, and drag it out (capping happens as a series of follow-up appointments). She wasn't convinced that it would offer very much additional support on top of the root canal and corresponding fillings... I know your experience was with a little earth dog, not a huge hound, but do you have any thoughts on that?

You guys are the best...
~Natalya

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

She herself didn't go into detail about me brushing his teeth, or whether he obviously or not needed it - it was her assistant, and it was more of a distraction for me while the dentist wrote up a quote for the surgery.

~Natalya

I'd find out. I WOULD start brushing if he actually is collecting plaque.

Some dogs seem to have a drier mouth or something, more prone to plaque buildup.

The outside is the part most prone to it because the inside is washed by saliva, and (luckily) it's the part that's easiest and least annoying to the dog to clean.

There are flavored toothpastes (including liver .... trying to imagine getting up to brush my teeth with liver-flavored Crest), and there are plaque-dissolving rinses (squirty) to use while you're teaching the dog about holding still for the brushing.

 Quote: natalya zahn

Thanks Jennifer - both the original vet and the "dentist" were quite suprised I knew about the break, which tooth it was, about when it happened, etc.... I was all concerned I hadn't noticed it SOONER! Guess a lot of people never look in there...

Pet insurance may be in our future yet - I swear I've spent more money in vet bills on this dog - and every time he needs sedation or medication, I have to pay for something that will work on all of his 95lbs!

Connie, just one more question - the dentist steered me away from capping the root canal, as it will nearly DOUBLE the already high price of the procedure, and drag it out (capping happens as a series of follow-up appointments). She wasn't convinced that it would offer very much additional support on top of the root canal and corresponding fillings... I know your experience was with a little earth dog, not a huge hound, but do you have any thoughts on that?

You guys are the best...
~Natalya

I'd do what she recommends.

I really don't know all the details that made them decide to go for my granddog's VERY spendy crown....