Quote: steven lepic

 Quote:

The aggressive US vaccination programs along with leash laws (they also minimize contact with wildlife) and round ups of strays have virtually eliminated canine rabies as a cause of human deaths in the US. Rather than controlling canine rabies, the shot is now more of a preventative in case your dog encounters rabid wildlife.

I have a better chance of getting murdered, but I don't go around wearing kevlar all day. Benefit: More likely to survive a gun shot wound. Cost: Quality of life.

I will probably never get shot. But the odds are certainly better than my dog getting rabies.

So, let's be rational.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I grew up with my mom telling me about the Bull Terrier they had as a kid in California that got "dumb Rabies". Before they figured out what her problem was they felt around in her mouth several times to find the thing that was making her drool so much. But nobody in the house got Rabies or took the preventative immunization treatment. AND she told me about her cousin "Who was bitten by a mad dog and was taking the preventive shots. One day when they drove home after a shot he jumped out of the car and climbed the big sycamore tree and jumped to his death. They didn't know for sure if he had rabies or not and speculated that the treatments were so painful he couldn't stand it, or he had Rabies."
So I have a huge Rabies Monster in my closet.
And now I live in an area where the vast majority of the hound hunters (coyote, coon, and rabbit) NEVER vaccinate for Rabies and haven't for generations and have not had a rabid dog (hundreds, maybe thousands, of dogs over the years). Trappers and fur buyers wallowing in coon, 'possum, skunk, muskrat, and coyote carcasses have not gotten rabies.
So I vaccinated my dogs for Rabies primarily because of the monster in my closet.
I had one 4 month old pup close to death for 2 weeks, one Chihuahua who still has terrible debilitating spasms, and other problems that I'm sure are from that one vaccination.
I certainly don't want to give another vaccination of any kind to any one of my dogs, but there is still that monster in my closet who whispers to me "But what if one of your dogs gets Rabies and bites your kid because you didn't vaccinate." He wrestles with the Vaccinosis Monster.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels stuck in the middle.

If the veterinary and pharmaceutical communities were more concerned about our health and that of our animals than on making money from selling vaccines I might be able to trust their vaccine recommendations. As it stands now I cannot trust them because their lies have caused me and other people damage to our animals and children.
So when they say "You need to vaccinate." I look at it with skepticism.

Is 'rational' in the eye of the beholder?

 Quote: david morris

If I advise people to comply with the law and then explain why it is a law is considered a scare tactic ,then I disagree. But this is your forum so I will respectfully not make anymore comments.

But I thought I remembered this being a law enforcement friendly web site.

David, you are not advising people to comply with the law by posting things like "you or your pet may be bitten by a bat and never wake up"

If that is what animal control in your area tells people to get them to comply, then I think some education is in order for you all.

Law enforcement friendly, yes absolutely. BS friendly, nope.

Every bat that is removed from a home is tested for rabies for that reason. There is paper work to be filled out that ask questions like are there infants, elderly , or non responsive people in the home. This is people that are most likely to not know or unable to communicate if they have been bitten. The same goes for pets. If there are pets in the home we need to see if they have a current rabies vaccination. If the bat comes back postive for rabies the pets are required to get a booster shot and the people in the house receive their rabies exposure shots. If the comes back positive for rabies and the pets are not vaccinated then the animals are seized OR the owner has the option to quarentine them for 6 months at a vet. Its a sad thing to take peoples pets because they didnt have rabies vaccination. Same goes for when a pet has an encounter with a wild animal that test positive for rabies. If a pet has an encounter with a wild animal and there is no animal to be tested it is assumed for public safety that the animal had rabies and if the pet does not have a current abies vaccination it is seized or the 6 month quarentine at the vet. The difference between the US and third world countries as far as rabies in human goes is because it is a law that pets be vaccinated for rabies. The majority ( like 80 %) of people that die in Mexico from rabies got it from a dog. NOBODY in the US has ever died of rabies if they recieved the post rabies exposure shot. But nobody that develops rabies survives.Thats just a fact that is why preventing it is the way to go.
I didnt mean to start a riff but I for one hate to take peoples animals because of exposures to a rabid animal when a simple shot would have prevented it. I totaly get and understand the over vaccination of pets and understand that it is probably a money making scam that is not healthy for the animals but I do not consider rabies vaccination as one of those things. I know I live in an area where there is an epideimc of rabies in the wildlife, the original poster lives in GA I believe. I dont want to see anybody lose their pet over not getting it vaccinated because their dog killed a rabid racoon in their fenced in backyard. And the vaccination is a State Law. I dont really see how you can advise people to not comply with the law.

 Quote: david morris

when a simple shot would have prevented it.

The only thing I have to say here, until I am more educated on this subject, is.....from what I have read and discussed so far....."simple shots" are a myth....

Seems that the topic is pretty well covered.

Seems also like another good place for
http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/about%20the%20RCF.html

This, along with the same doctor's minimal vaccination protocol, is probably the most important U.S. companion animal vaccine project happening right now.

Dr. Dodds*, IMHO, is a great pioneer. Our training club supported this project in our smallish way; maybe others would like the opportunity, too.


*Her resume is here:
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-RESUME.HTM

David,

We both know there are plenty of stupid laws and ordinances, which exist solely for the lowest common denominator. We also have discretion. "I'm not telling you to break the law, BUT..." Have those words ever escaped your lips when you had to carefully communicate the proper solution to a problem which the LAW was far too crude of an instrument to handle? I certainly hope so.

There's a lot more differences between the third world and here besides vaccination. C'mon now. Pretty much everything I previously listed for my area applies to a great deal of this country.

 Quote: David Morris

But nobody that develops rabies survives.

That is not true

http://www.immunize.org/reports/report071.pdf

 Quote: Steven Lepic

Now, in my case, I can say the following about my area:

1. There are very few stray/feral animals
2. What feral animals there are, are picked up promptly by animal control
3. There is adequate village sanitation services, which deprive a non-hunter from surviving on garbage
4. There are hard winters which domesticated animals would be hard-pressed to survive, and which force some potential wild carriers to hibernate or migrate
5. Sufficient (sub)urbanization to drive wild potential carriers to rather segegrated areas
6. Sufficient car traffic to take care of animals who don't have their heads on straight
7. Very little bat roosting

I have a better chance of getting murderd, but I don't go around wearing kevlar all day. Benefit: More likely to survive a gun shot wound. Cost: Quality of life.

I will probably never get shot. But the odds are certainly better than my dog getting rabies.

So, let's be rational.

EXCELLENT arguments, Steven.

I really have nothing to add to that. In fact, if you don't mind, I'll use your quote when discussing this topic with fellow dog owners around here from now on.

Actaually I am aware of the one girl that survived. If you investigate further you will find that her life today is bad, last I heard. She has severe neurological damage and basically is just alive.
I think any body here that got bit by a racoon or bat would go to the doctor and recieve the rabies treatment. Since our pets can not communicate if the same thing happens to them I cant see why anyone would not take the same precautions with them. Not to mention there are laws that will take those precautions if you fail to do so in exposure situations.

Hey, where'd all my stars go? LOL!

We've pretty much covered the basic points, I guess.