Rick - you have a lot to learn and I suggest you sit back and read.

While everyone is welcome to have an opinion - with experience you will often learn that your opinions were wrong.

No insult intended - but you lack experience. We have all been there at one point in time or another.

If you ever had to hunt bad guys that have guns at night with a dog you would want the best bad ass son of a bitch you could have at the end of a leash. That doesnt happen by breeding middle of the road temperament dogs. It happens because people like myself understand how to put bloodlines and temperaments together to produce working dogs. That only happens with experience.

So just because you may not want a dog like than - and because you don't know anything about breeding a dog like that - doesn't mean anything.

You have posted your opinions here - thats enough. It's time to start reading and learning.

 Quote:

Good (I repeat, GOOD) ecollar training is not about compulsion anyway, its about having a way to communicate with your dog without a leash, regardless of where the collar is in the dog's body.

Well stated. In the early years of e-collars it was all about compulsion. Thats not the case now. If the imprinting and foundation work is done correctly there is no reason to have multiple anything on a dog.

There is a member here who uses an e-collar on the groin, as well as the neck. His explanation to me was that any correction on these extreme dogs is considered resistance from the helper by the dog. The correction from the groin comes from the handler. I'm still having difficulty following that logic.

Howard

Robbin -

Just want to add something in regarding Ecollar stim. At most of the levels it really truly does not hurt. I know because I have had Electro Stim Therapy for torn muscles and back problems, and I tested my ECollar on myself! It is a tingle, if there is any pain it feels more like you got poked with a needle real real fast and it mainly just gets your attention - it is often just annoying like this tingly buzzy feeling on your skin. Now you get into the higher levels and the nick/stim gives a little zap but it is fleeting, if you go to Cont. Stim is causes the muscles to contract. The hardness of the dog/threshhold determines whether or not this actually hurts at whatever level you have it on. The point is not to hurt the dog, but at a high stim you can cause the muscles to contract, if you use the cont stim it is very uncomfortable but whether or not it hurts depends on the animal. Dogs have thicker skin plus fur on top of whatever level of pain tolerance/hardness/threshhold.

Maybe I should put one on and see what it feels like, lol!!

No, I'm not being sarcastic! I'm serious...hmmm, where did I put that collar?

Maybe once I tried one on for size, I'd be a little more understanding concerning "electrocuting" a dog, lmbo!!!

Question is...do I really wanna strap one on? HEEHEEHEE

I'll give it some thought....like Meatloaf says, "Let me sleep on it"

Haha I will say do not put it on your neck! Humans don't have the same kind of neck and muscling a dog does - for a close comparrison put it on your thigh just above your knee.

Good luck

 Quote: RobbinMann

Question is...do I really wanna strap one on? HEEHEEHEE

I would, and have.
Actually I got zapped with a cattle prod one time while working cows. A dog collar is probably no where near what a prod is and even though it stung a bit, it really did not hurt. But, it definitely got my attention.

I do not think the prods hurt the cattle either, but it is uncomfortable enough for them move away from you and go the other way, or get the move on.

All you have to do is hold the collar in the palm of your hand.

If you were ever one of those kids that stuck their tongue on a 9 volt battery, there ya go. Like Jennifer said, it is more of an uncomfortable tingling sensation than a painful zap.

We also need to remember that these collars are not ALL used at the same time and that they are not allowed on the competition field or during testing of any kind.

 Quote: RobbinMann

Question is...do I really wanna strap one on? HEEHEEHEE

 Quote: Carol Boche

I would, and have.

We also need to remember that these collars are not ALL used at the same time and that they are not allowed on the competition field or during testing of any kind.

1. I would, and have, too. And I probably wouldn't use it if I hadn't. I personally don't know anyone who uses one but has never tried it on him/herself in some way.

2. BIG ditto.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

... Humans don't have the same kind of neck and muscling a dog does - for a close comparrison put it on your thigh just above your knee. ...

That's what a club member told me, too, and so that was what I did.

Or a muscular upper arm, he said (which would be pretty much not mine.... ).

Yeah I put my hand on the horse fence once I lost my balance and my hand happened to find the top rail with the wire attached. That smarted but it wasn't that bad. I did still end up on the ground though hah.

I have never used an ecollar with the intent to hurt my dogs - I have heard dogs yelp with a collar on and it can be a surprise and can sting for a moment. It might also have been on a stim level higher than it should have been for the moment or that specific dog, etc. It is a shock in that it is surprising and that it has to do with electricity But I have always viewed it as communication. What is has to do with a dogs drive, hardness, threshhold, etc is that it is annoying and at higher levels of cont stim has the potential to cause some pain, but pain is not the point.

A hard dog does not need pain to control it, but the dog is capable of ignoring more in the way of pain and other distractions than a soft dog. What would be painful to a lower threshold soft dog is like a flick of a finger to a hard dog. I view hardness as the dogs ability to ignore physical things, whether painful or not.

I realize I came off before as only talking about pain, because I do not view the ecollar as painful I should have thought about that. I know people don't know and probably think it causes pain. I wanted to stress the fact that some dogs can just take whatever is thrown at them, painful or not.

I knew an AB that had it's leg broken by a boar it was after and still went after the boar and fought the boar down (they don't attack or try to kill it, for those that don't know about Hog Catching, they go for the ear/side of the head and just immobilize the hog, it isn't a dog vs hog fight)

Cajun was hit by a van in my own drive way (Ushaped drive attached to a highway, they were turning around going like 35) and he was hit a good one and never yelped or anything, just a limp and acted like nothing was wrong. Because he did not react to being poked and prodded by the vet we had to get 13 XRays to make sure nothing was actually broken ( he was lucky )