http://www.ddrlegends.com/gallery2/v/Czech+Dogs/Chasinta+z+Pohranicni+straze.jpg.html?g2_GALLERYSID=6677fa091967fa18bb88e24fccf71ff8

Mike,
Tell me where it is that you read that Max von Stephanitz wanted German Shepherds to bite people all the time. Tell me where you read that Max von Stephanitz wanted German Shepherds to be dogs that were not good in homes. I haven't been able to find this information anywhere.
You are correct that there are many people that should not be breeding, but, that does not mean that the only dogs that should be bred are vicious biters that can not live in a home.
Your post leads one to believe that you feel working ability equates to biting. What the f... is that all about?
The breed is Shepherd dog, not Biting dog.
It is supposed to be a well rounded dog including the ability to live in a home. Your idea of what a dog should be is a little convoluted and I hope that you take the time to re-evaluate what you think because your ideas are not necessarily in line with what was envisioned by von Stephanitz.
I have a Grim z PS grandaughter out of Xero z PS. She is an awesome working dog in every respect, including biting, but, she also lives in my house with my other dogs, and cats, and is 100% trustworthy around kids. It seems to me that this is exactly what Max von Stephanitz envisioned for this breed.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

The problem with Czech lines is the same problem as with every other line of working dog, of any breed.

Lots of idiots breeding dogs that shouldnt be bred.

Why? Because most people dont know squat about breeding ("professional" breeders included), and are thus churning out dogs that are nothing like they should be, because too many people are looking for a "working puppy" that can be "the perfect house dog". Just look at the abundance of posts on this forum over the years of people complaining that their working puppy bites. Well, yes, that is what they are bred to do. I wouldn't want to own a working puppy that didn't want to maul me for the first year or so. Unfortunately, the vast majority of working dogs in the US are sold to pet homes. I know of a breeder in the US that produces what I consider to be phenomenal "only for the experienced handler" type dogs, and in order to place all his pups he has to accept non working homes. People want to put the dogs down thinking there is something wrong with them because they are so intense. This is actually the primary reason why one of my friends in Holland won't sell their pups to the US -- they are worried that people will put the dogs down instead of shipping them back.

These are the types of dogs that need to be bred to keep breeds strong, unfortunately there are not enough people doing this and not enough people willing to own these dogs. There will always be pet quality dogs out of working litters, what disappoints me is when a working litter is bred with the GOAL of producing pet quality dogs. That is where things start to go wrong.

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that does not mean that the only dogs that should be bred are vicious biters that can not live in a home.

Who said anything about vicious biters that cannot live in a home? Well.. in GSD's anyway. I guess I forgot to clarify the breeder I mentioned breeds Dutch Shepherds. I'd hardly say that a biting puppy is a "vicious biter", and there's no reason a great dog can't live in the home. I wouldn't trust a great <18 month old working puppy around small children though, unless you are compulsioning the biting behavior out of the dog, in which case I would assume there are no plans to actually WORK the dog, but rather just have a pet.

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Your post leads one to believe that you feel working ability equates to biting. What the f... is that all about?

Yes, I'm sorry... lets all select puppies that don't bite. I'm sure a puppy that doesn't care much about biting would make a great SAR dog, or Narc Dog, or Police Dog... oh wait, I'm sorry, aren't all those dogs trained with bite rewards??? Naturally biting isn't the only requirement, but its a pretty important one.

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your ideas are not necessarily in line with what was envisioned by von Stephanitz.

I sure hope not, I live in 2008.

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She is an awesome working dog in every respect, including biting, but, she also lives in my house with my other dogs, and cats, and is 100% trustworthy around kids.

In every respect? So, what work does she do exactly? To what standard is she an "awesome working dog"? Didn't we just establish that working dogs don't need to bite? Or does a biting working dog score extra points? Or does she only bite the sleeve?

I'm not quite sure what you were getting at with your post, but I will say this: To produce an average dog, you need to breed 2 great dogs. To produce a great dog, you need to breed 2 exceptional dogs. There will always be easier to handle and less driven dogs coming out of even the best litters. The problem is when people start breeding with that particular goal in mind. The progeny rarely lives up to the quality of the parents. When this happens it is considered a very successful breeding. So what happens if all the breeders start breeding dogs that are average? Some dogs produced will be average, most will be below average, and all the great dogs disappear.

I'm glad you like your dog, that's what it's all about. But if we all listened to everyone that said their dog was the greatest, we'd never have dogs like Nick vom Heiligenbosch, Gildo vom Korbelbach, Tom van 't Leefdaalhof, or any of the other all time greats, at least one of which appear in every working dogs pedigree.

Julie, there should be no problems using a sound Czech dog for SAR work. Mine and plenty of others are.

 Quote: Nancy Jocoy

Julie, there should be no problems using a sound Czech dog for SAR work. Mine and plenty of others are.

Yes Julie, PM me and I'll let you know of a good breeder that uses Czech dogs for SAR.

There is also a lot to be said for following the lead LE does ....... get a young adult.

You can have OFA hips, drives evaluated, bloodwork, back x-rays and have a dog who adapts quickly to a new owner you do not have the gamble of a puppy.

In a nostalgic sense, it is kind of sad to see this part of the GSD history fade, but that's what happens over time. The kennel no longer exists, hence no more dogs from this kennel. It is interesting to me, that this kennel was one of the longest running breeding operations in the history of the breed (since 1955), rivaled only by the Busecker Schloss kennel and probably a few others.
This is a good story for people to realize, breeding is very hard work, time intensive & won't make you famous quick. This kennel(s) probably produced hundreds of dogs annually at its peak, and definitely made a mark on the breed, but it took that kind of mass production to produce a relatively small number of very notable dogs.
Many of their dogs were virtually unknown to the rest of the world until the mid to late 1990's and for this reason were often not used for breeding, and when they were known, still weren't used by many serious breeders, b/c not many people were familiar with the bloodlines. Also, the fact that they did the wolf-dog breedings (Czech Wolfdog origin) in the 60's and 70's probably made many in the SV & WUSV nervous about including these dogs in their programs.
We have a Grim zPs Grandson that is almost 9 years old. He is out of Alk v Osterburg Quell & Unit Gymor. He has a fabulous temperament, great prey, retrieve & food drive, and a very good nose. Not the strongest protection dog in the world, but probably would have been a very good club level SchH dog, possibly enough for regional showing. He has a dysplastic right hip and developed EPI when he was about 4 yrs old. He was trained in SAR and is an acomplished Human Remain Detection dog. I think his Conformational 'shortcomings' can probably be attributed to the Czech side of him, buit overall he is a pretty balanced mix of his DDR-line Father & Czech Mother.