That's cool, i just wonder if the whining was to be expected. Once again, I know I am expecting too much too soon, but I keep expecting some big changes i guess.

Oh..on the attention span issue, i wouldn't say 20 minutes of attention while training, i would say about 20 minutes of play 'attention' where she will play while focusing somewhat on me. Actually, little 5 min spurts then a breakaway, then another spurt, that kind of thing.

What are the thoughts on a dominant dog collar for use when walking, say at a park we go to? I enjoy taking her out to the park and she enjoys as well, it's just that she pulls the hell out of the leash. I stop, and will make her come back to me, and then it is pull all over again, would a dominant collar help with this?

All in all, she is a very well natured puppy. she is just super-spastic, which is funny a lot of times. When she mauls you while nipping at your arms when you get home, it's irritating, but hopefully she will grow out of it.

I forgot and left a 2x4 leaned over a fence yesterday, the neighbor told me she spent several hours attempting to walk up the 2x4 to get out of the lot. along with digging me a few pot hole surprises.

Ok dont take this the wrong way as I dont mean it to be rude,

But im not sure a GSP or other bird dog was the best choice for
you in the long run. Pointers/Bird dogs in general tend to be the most high strung go go go dogs I have ever seen. And I have a husky, talk about high energy levels and extreme exercise needs.

Honestly I think you expect too much from her.

My Nico is 11 and still whines and wiggles when I first get home.

Puppies are by their very nature a pain in the butt, it is their job..its in the contract.
It does get better but not for a while, dont expect much common sense or mellowness until she turns 2.

Do you plan on hunting with her? If not what sort of activity do you have in mind to keep her mentally stable and well exercised.

20 minutes is a really really long time, I keep sessions short with my pup, less 5 to at most 10 minutes usually with a little break and then some more work.

IMO its better to do 5 short sessions in a night than one long one.
Training is also somewhat constant for me as I want them to be in the house and managable so basic manners are being worked on constantly as part of our daily routine. Yes he drives me nuts when he is into whatever I am doing but the patience and frustration will pay off because he is truly learning the routine and rules of the household.


Once again She will be a puppy until around the age of two, right now she is entering the teenage nightmare phase and will likely get more over the top and forget everything she knows for a while.

This is totally normal but also totally frustrating. I have had three pups in three years so its a little easier to be objective this time around

Mark,

There is no reason you cannot introduce her to a prong now. I would follow the "conditioning" guidelines to get her used to it before using it.

If she is pulling and ignoring food and you have done everything you can to make YOU the funnest thing and she still gets focused on something else, then I would do it.

The one thing I do not do with Ember is treat her when I know she is going to attempt a "drive thru window" treat.
This is where she comes back to me, wants to grab the treat and then go back to focusing on what ever she focused on in the first place.

Uh Uh, not gonna happen. When she turns and comes back I make a big deal and tell her how good she is and then we go somewhere else out of sight of the "object" of her attention.

This is working well and she is now starting to "stay with me" more.

As for the whining, totally normal and the best thing to do is to go into the house, do what you need to do and then go out and play with her or whatever.
I agree with Sandy Moore in the fact that I like that my dogs are happy I am home rather than sitting there looking like their world just ended.

Getting her into hunting will be a great thing for you and her. She will love it I bet and you will see a complete transformation in her I expect.

Mark,
One of the things I sometimes found worked with my gun dogs was the whistle. One of those small shill loose ball in a cage kind, for some reason they respond really well to it. This was in the days before clickers (at least for me), have you tried them? I bet they'd get his attention right off.
Just a thought.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

I guess one thing I should explain, is that I am not wanting to use the prong as the sole training tool, i am wanting to use it for walks, outside of my backyard. For the simple fact i just want her to stay with me, and treats and praise have not worked in that regard. When she can't keep focus long enough or even look at a treat outside of the backyard, i don't really know what else to do. I can give her a solid leash jerk for her to come to me, and it does nothing if she is focused on something else.

And yes, i agree, in retrospect, the pointer was probably not the optimal dog choice, but I can't do anything about it at this point. And honestly, i feel as if the dog is much better off with me than with 85% of the population. I see how the majority of people take care of their dogs, and I make it a point to spend a lot of time with her everyday. I guess long store short, I probably made a bad decision, but she could be in a lot worse shape.

And yes, it is my plan to hunt her. Unfortunately I can't really do that at this point, she is way too young, way too wild to have off leash for even a minute in the field. Luckily, i have found a friend who has an adult field trained hunting german shorthair, so we are hooking up to help both of them out.

He indicates, yes, you will see a complete change in her after hunting. that's what they want to do. I think i will love it as well, i have hunted my entire life, but in the puppy stage, i just can't do it. My thought is, i can't let her off leash, but i can take her to the woods and let her get experience there, i just need something to control her better.

And that fact is, from what i can tell, she is an extremely happy dog. i think once we can hit the field without her running off into the sunset, we will have a whale of a time.

yes, actually, i am going to buy one of the whistles, i think it will help too.

when she sees another dog, the only thing that would help is a 2x4 to her head. this sunday however, another pointer is coming over, so she will have about all she can handle. And will be able to run and play for a while with someone that can keep up with her.

He sounds like a nice dog Mark, and if you hunt a good choice for a dog. Given time (and luck, knock on wood) you're going to be more then happy with him. Don't worry, any dog worth their salt is a pain at his age. So patience, you have quite a few more months to go. Just keep on working with him, he'll come around.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

PS.
Also know, with the whistle you'll only have a few times to mark and reward to start the wanted behavior. If the reward isn't enough he'll ignore the whistle.

 Quote: Mark Surgenor

And yes, i agree, in retrospect, the pointer was probably not the optimal dog choice, but I can't do anything about it at this point. And honestly, i feel as if the dog is much better off with me than with 85% of the population. I see how the majority of people take care of their dogs, and I make it a point to spend a lot of time with her everyday. I guess long store short, I probably made a bad decision, but she could be in a lot worse shape.

I do not think you made a bad decision at all. You chose this dog and you are taking the steps to have a very good relationship with her.
I also agree, she IS better off with you because you have plans for her.

Ugh, I am on a roll today, because I am seeing quite a few posts telling people what mistakes they are making and then I see those same people posting the issues they are having with their dogs.

It is one thing to offer advice about what we know and also offer support, but I do not think there are very many of us that would tell someone they made the wrong choice but rather we help them build a good relationship with their dog.

Are there people out there that should not have dogs period? Yes

Are there people out there who should not own a specific breed? Yes, but Mark is clearly not one of them. GSP's are one of the greatest breeds around for what he wants to do. AND this is a 5.5 month old puppy, doing puppy things........

I am sorry if I offended anyone, and I apologize to Mark for using him as an example and also using his thread to vent and the mods can delete this if they want, but geesh......

 Quote: randy allen

Don't worry, any dog worth their salt is a pain at his age.

I don't have puppies, but I do know from puppies past and present at training club that this is true.

Sometimes I get puppy fever, but then I get over it. I'm too old.

Ditto to what Carol said above. Not a wrong choice at all, even if you end up not hunting with her. We once had a German Shorthaired Pointer/Weimaraner/Lab mix, hyper as heck and didn't settle down til she was about 5 years old , never hunted with her but took hikes in the mountains which she loved, carrying her own backpack or overnighters. One of the best dogs I've ever had. Sweet as sugar, just a bit crazy is all.

Regarding the dominant dog collar - it's not a good choice for walking. It doesn't stop the pull, acting more like a choke collar and is for an entirely different purpose. A prong would be perfect, not cruel and they respond so well to it. But I would use the dominant dog collar as a backup when using a prong, or even a flat collar in case the prongs come apart.