That's exactly what I keep hearing Will. Thats a good point Jason. I know all I really want is a sportdog. I have no interest in breeding or ever making a dime. It's just the training and the drive and speed I see in some of these dogs that really impresses me.

A lot of us older trainers could bore ya'll with our tales about how the sport ( and how the dogs doing the sport ) have changed, but I think we'd be in agreement that the change has been generally for the worse.
The good part is....training methods have evolved and we know more about canine drives, which is better for our dogs. A whole better, believe me!


Heck, we can get Old Earthdog Scott to comment, he was training dire wolves back when ancient man first crept out of their caves. Now that would really give us perspective!

LOL,LOL, Hahahahahaha!!!

 Quote: Will Rambeau

...Heck, we can get Old Earthdog Scott to comment, he was training dire wolves back when ancient man first crept out of their caves. Now that would really give us perspective!

I've even about read Bob training a 3 legged Chihuahua.

 Quote: Will Rambeau

Heck, we can get Old Earthdog Scott to comment, he was training dire wolves back when ancient man first crept out of their caves. Now that would really give us perspective!

He discovered fire you know....

 Quote: Carol Boche

 Quote: Will Rambeau

Heck, we can get Old Earthdog Scott to comment, he was training dire wolves back when ancient man first crept out of their caves. Now that would really give us perspective!

He discovered fire you know....

Ooooo, I am SO telling on you two!

We gotta keep him around. Without Bob, I'm probably the forum elder!

There is a movement in the AWDF (American Working Dog Federation) to bring back parts of the 'Old Schutzhund' tests,

See
http://www.awdf.net/11-9-07AWDFTrialrules.pdf
and
http://www.siriustrainer.com/AWDF/AWDF.htm

This has been a very interesting thread to read. For me, someone who will never title a dog, isn't looking for protection, and isn't an expert in any way shape or form ... I watched Hans breeder work Hans sire on the field and my jaw dropped. I had never seen such obedience, focus, or intelligence in a dog before. Now, his sire was titled, had placed 15th in the BSP, etc. That doesn't really mean much to me, I have no background in it. But what I saw was a smart dog that listened to its owner.

I came away believing that buying a puppy this dog sired would give me: a dog who had a good chance of not having health problems, a dog that would be trainable, and a dog that would make a good companion.

Health: Hans has allergies. Neither of his parents did, I guess I was unlucky? I don't know.

Trainable: I have come to believe that the only limitation on his training is me. I'm not good enough to bring him to his full potential. Regardless, he is very smart and picks up on things quickly.

Companion: He is sweet and lovable. He acts like he thinks my wife is his mother. He has character and a sense of humor. And he really enjoys being with his family, or "pack". I came home from a four day trip and he was ecstatic.

Other things I didn't expect: He "alarm barks" and has a growl that can be down right scary. He isn't trained in protection, but I know if a bad guy comes to our door, and hears Hans on the other side (he'll start hearing him from the street), he'll turn around and go somewhere else.

Fireworks and Thunder: Every year leading up to the Fourth of July loud and noisy fireworks go off all over the neighborhood. I read letters to the editor from people complaining about how it scares their dogs. Hans just gets up and finds a quieter place to lay back down and go to sleep. We don't get a lot of thunder storms through here. Last fall we had one come through and we went out onto the front porch (covered) to watch the light show. Hans just laid down beside us. The thunder didn't bother him at all.

Prey drive: Once he gets into it, he doesn't want to come out. I have come to believe that once he gets into prey drive he is having the time of his life. He becomes very focused. When I play with him with his tug, I can put him into a sit or a down, and he stays there, totally focused on the tug, until I release him. It just amazes me to see this. I guess that is what people mean when they talk about training in drive.

So while others who know more about Shutzhund may be of the opinion that the standards are going down, I believe that by getting a puppy from two dogs who were titled I had a much better chance of getting a quality animal who would be trainable and make an excellent companion.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: carol boche

 Quote: will rambeau

Heck, we can get Old Earthdog Scott to comment, he was training dire wolves back when ancient man first crept out of their caves. Now that would really give us perspective!

He discovered fire you know....

Ooooo, I am SO telling on you two!

We gotta keep him around. Without Bob, I'm probably the forum elder!

Connie to the rescue as usual!

Will, the dire wolves weren't the problem. It was the equiptment. I used a loin cloth for a sleeve. Trouble is, I only had one loing cloth. Worring about redirected bites always kept me on my toes.
Carol. That fall on my head and landing on that rock was a huge leap forward for mankind. Agreed, it did slow down a bit till I found out it was flint hitting my head that created the spark. Trying all those different rocks was a painful but "enlightening" expierience.

Schutzhund is a sport! Yes!
That doesn't mean that you can't train for the attack out of the blind and the other "old school" exercises. That's up to you, your club and, of course, the dog.
The majority of PPD training, IMHO, is "beat em till they bite" bs.
When done correctly it's as much an art as any dog sport. Probably more so because of the seriousness of it.
I think one of my GSD's is capable of doing nice PPD work. I say "think" because I dont really know. I've never found the need or desire to train for it.
He has a great threat display, on command. For ME, that makes him an excellent PPD.
Now I gota go back in the cave and get me and my wolves warmed up by the fire.
DAMN! That's gonna hurt!

Charlie that's a good beginning but regarding conformation, bringing back the palisade wall and long jump would do more for the healthy future of the GSD than any other thing I can think of. One, it would change the conformation of the breed that is getting larger with more bone and bigger heads to one that is smaller, less bone, squared up and because of that conformation a lot more agile and could work longer in more hostile conditions. Moreover, if brought back, HD would be almost non-existent much like the Malinois that is vetted by the palisade wall in French Ring 1 and 2. Of course the show GSD because of its conformation could not for the most part get over the palisade wall hence you can forget about the one apparatus that could insure that the modern GSD could accomplish what it should be able to, and by the way what its ancestors of the 1900's could accomplish. I guess my definition of progress is much different than their's.