The puppy is primarily only in danger of "catching" something when he's around other dogs, so I limit THAT exposure to my schutzhund club where I know the dogs. I wouldn't take a pup to Petsmart where all kinds of careless dog owners bring their pets. But I don't limit the pup's exposure to other types of places or people. And I'm extremely picky about what dogs the pup meets anyway - it has to be a submissive, good "uncle" or "aunt" type dog that's willing to be mauled or it will be a younger puppy than my own (so mine can dominate it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ).

Sch3FH2,

Does the playing with puppy always winning, not submitting to petting, etc. apply to an older dog, or is it later o.k. for the dog to recieve petting, and if so, when?

A pup that has not yet "completed" the series of vaccinations (3 parvo/distemper beginning at 8 weeks old and repeated every four weeks with a rabies vaccination at 16 weeks old) and is taken to any public place is put at risk to contract disease. You may also put your pup at risk by where ever you walk and bring into the house from your shoes. The parvo virus can be easily transmitted via the soles of your shoes.

For these reasons; I did not allow my pup's feet to touch any floor other than home prior to her completion of vaccinations.

Spraying my shoes with a clorox solution also provided an edge in disease prevention.

An ounce of prevention is well worth the inconvenience and back pain associated with carrying a 40lb puppy into the vet office for her last series of vaccinations.

Then..we can began our socialization with the outside world with all four feet on the floor.

Barbara,

I'm over-run with curiosity. If you don't mind me asking, how did you socialize your pup before 16 weeks?

Chuck..in answer to your question; I socialized Dallas between the ages of 7-16 weeks within the confines of my home via visitors (who had removed their shoes prior to entering my home); within the safety of my arms in public places or within a shopping cart that was lined with newspaper and then her blanket (she had a working knowledge of sit/stay) or within the confines of the cab of my truck. As to socializing with other dogs/cats; she had that advantage within the confines of home under my direct supervision.

I must readily admit..my back took a beating from lifting and carrying the last month. I became the "queen" of paper towels and flannel backed table cloths that lined my truck seats to catch the upchuck of travel..but..it was all worth it.

Very interesting.

Does the playing with puppy always winning, not submitting to petting, etc. apply to an older dog, or is it later o.k. for the dog to recieve petting, and if so, when?

In play, I still want my dog to win the games even as an adult, just as he does with the helper. I'm not adverse to controlling or ending the game when they are adult tho, since some folks are not prepared for the roughness. People are going to reach out and pet dogs, you can't avoid it, but if they ask, I will tell them no. If a dog solicits attention/petting, fine. But if he doesn't seek it, I won't force it on him and I try to not pet other people's dogs either unless the dog solicits it. That said, they are of course expected to and do tolerate it if petted. But it is still a form of submission and some dogs don't enjoy it at all.

So, at what age is it o.k. for the dog to receive petting when it wants it? Or maybe I should ask at what stage of training, and how can you tell?

Today; Dallas is a 7 month old confident puppy who is not only well mannered because of positive re-enforced education and socialization but also a young maturing GSD who will continue with all positive controlled experiences with my human power. She was the youngest in her 4H obedience class (that was yet another outlet for socialization) and graduated as best in the class. When the fall session begins..we'll be there to take advantage of continued
socialization and education for her. In the meantime; we visit friends, family and PetSmart.

I guess I'd have different answers depending on whether it was a pet or a competition dog. You kinda want a pet to be submissive - makes it easier to fit them into your family. If the dog likes to be loved on by others, who cares? Let 'em. If I have a dog that I want to compete with, however, I would have to look at the dog's behavior when he solicits attention from strangers. If it happens to be the "insistent" type of asking, like vigorously shoving their head/muzzle under your arm to tell you to scratch on them, that can be a dominant behavior. I wouldn't care about that. If I see "fawning", ears flat back against the head, tail low and wagging quickly, body language clearly submissive (the typical golden retriever), then I would not allow it. This dog is getting reinforced for acting submissive and that's counterproductive. Of course, you have to wonder if that's the right dog for the sport if that's the temperament he displays. My preference would be that he brings the visitor a toy and shoves it in his face, or that he solicits MY attention.