Quote: Jennifer Skeldon

... Since I foster, we have a lot of dogs come through the house, often ADORABLE puppies. I let my guy correct them, but watch every move .....

You are there. I don't get why you are not in charge. You are the pack leader.

 Quote: Cameron Feathers

I never allow them to correct one another.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

I couldn't agree more.

Thank you for answering one of my questions before asking this question!


Edited by Connie Sutherland (07/26/2008 05:15 PM)
Edit reason: mod clarified quotes

Jennifer,

You mentioned fostering.

Are the fosters generally puppies? And you have one permanent adult?

(I'm thinking that it's not a hijack, since the first post concerns adults correcting a new puppy.)

So why is the pack leader allowing a puppy to bother an adult dog?

I'm not saying it has never happened here but it is definitely not my goal. I want my dog to count on me for protection and that would mean if he moves away from a puppy; it is my job to make sure the puppy is not allowed to follow. In my opinion this builds trust. I never want to put my dog into the position where he feels he has to correct. The goal is to have him look to me for a solution. Who is to say if I let it get to the point where he feels the need to correct a puppy that he would trust me to intercede on his behalf if the annoyance were coming from a child? And if he corrects a child............it could cost him his life.

On the other hand I am not as daring as most of you with the multi dog households; I am a one dog woman.

BTW Connie this isn't in response to you but a general response to the thread. (I just noticed I answered your post)

Connie, I get puppies (rarely) maybe 2-4 times a year for a few days/week at a time when the shelter has no one else to look after them. We normally have older dogs with aggression/dominance issues, and always have at least one other dog than mine in the house. I have one permanent dog and anywhere from 1-3 fosters at a time. I do NOT allow my dog to correct older (7+ mo) dogs. I trust my dog 100% so I am not always supervising the behavior. I do correct puppies when I'm in the same room at the right time. The big thing is I allow the dogs to run freely from the house to the (fenced) yard so I am not constantly supervising the situation. I know that in the yard if I am not there and the puppy bothers the old guy, he'll correct.

I'm new to multiple dog behavioral situations and find out a LOT when just watching the dogs interact in the back yard. I've read to correct the lead dog and and let him correct the others. I feel that's what I'm doing when letting mine tell puppies no.
I'm just wondering how it works with multiple dogs living together permanently, since I don't get that exposure. Is that a hijack? I don't mean it to be and can put it in another post.

 Quote: Jennifer Skeldon

... We normally have older dogs with aggression/dominance issues, and always have at least one other dog than mine... I trust my dog 100% so I am not always supervising the behavior. .... The big thing is I allow the dogs to run freely from the house to the (fenced) yard so I am not constantly supervising the situation. ... I've read to correct the lead dog and and let him correct the others. I feel that's what I'm doing when letting mine tell puppies no. ... Is that a hijack? ...

This goes completely against my M.O. with multiple dogs, and particularly with strange dogs.

I don't let one dog correct another one, and I don't let strange dogs be together without me supervising. It's not at all a matter of trusting my own dogs.

I'm not a puppy expert at all, but this situation seems to me to be very volatile. I know that puppy experts will respond to the adult-correcting-puppy thing (my gut tells me no), but I know that my stance about strange adult dogs running unsupervised won't change. That will never happen in my house.

I think that this is a good topic and I don't think that we've hijacked; the O.P. asked about adults correcting pups.

 Quote: Mallory Kwiatkowski

as sonny is ok with my older dogs, and they are great with him, i am letting them play/interact most of the time now, i had been separating them. ....

The older dogs were separated and are now together? Or the puppy had been separated from the adults and now isn't?

Oh I missed this forum while my internet died! I've got LOADS of catching up to do!

Anyway, I thought I'd add my 2p's worth too, if it's any help.

 Quote: Jennifer Skeldon

I've read to correct the lead dog and and let him correct the others.

I think you're partly right about only the lead dog correcting others - however YOU are the lead dog - the Pack Leader!

IMHO growling is not a correction, it's a warning. If some behaviour is causing one of your pack to growl, you as PL should be putting a stop to that behaviour.

I imagine you must have your hands full with all the fostering, but I'm not sure I'm keen on allowing a resident older dog to mix with new younger ones if you can't supervise them 100% of the time.

Again, I'm by no means a multi-dog expert. However I think there's probably a difference between established pack members having a little grumble at each other, knowing that the Alpha will stop anything stupid, and two relatively unfamiliar dogs 'establishing rank'.

HTH

Rob

 Quote: Jennifer Skeldon

I have heard that when you do own a pack of dogs (who live as a pack), you don't correct all of them you are supposed to correct the beta (lead dog, but not alpha, you are alpha) who is in turn supposed to correct the lower dogs bad behavior. Do you use this? Or see the alpha dog beta pack member correcting the others' behavior?

Jennifer,

Not sure where you heard this. You are the alpha, the alpha corrects any and all pack members that require correcting. There are as many different ranks as there are members in the pack. You correcting the beta for counter surfing is not going to lead to the beta then correcting all other dogs in the house from counter surfing.

Only pack members higher ranking than other pack members can correct a lower ranking pack member. It doesn't matter if the pack member is number 4 out of 5, if number 5 steps out of line with number 4, number 4 will correct number 5. The number 2 does not walk around correcting all pack members for all things when the alpha is not around. Pack members only correct each other when things need correcting. Number 2 will not correct number 5 for pestering number 4, that is number 4's right. Number 5 didn't do anything to number 2, so number 2 will not enter into the situation.

I hope I am explaining this properly.

Anyhow. Yes it is in our dog's nature to correct one another as a pack of wolves would do based on rank and whatnot. The problem is that a pack of dogs in a home is NOT a pack of wolves in the wild. A pack of dogs in a home is often made up of temperament types that in a real pack would never have combined to create a pack. It is a pack because of the number of animals and all of them being in one territory, but past that there are a lot of differences all because of the fact that humans create a pack of dogs based on appearance or similar temperament etc and these animals do not always mix well.

I could go on forever about this. Bottom line is if you have that many dogs they need to be separated when you are not home. I've had 6 adult dogs at once in my home before and they were all on crate rotation. When I am not home my dogs do not mingle because way too many things could happen.

It is not fair to a puppy to allow a complete stranger dog correct it. It is not fair to an older dog to make them put up with and defend themselves from a strange puppy.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

... Yes it is in our dog's nature to correct one another as a pack of wolves would do based on rank.... The problem is that a pack of dogs in a home is NOT a pack of wolves in the wild. .... Bottom line is if you have that many dogs they need to be separated when you are not home.

It is not fair to a puppy to allow a complete stranger dog correct it. It is not fair to an older dog to make them put up with and defend themselves from a strange puppy.

and

 Quote: Rob Bruce

... I think you're partly right about only the lead dog correcting others - however YOU are the lead dog - the Pack Leader!

This makes complete sense to me. Good question, Jennifer S.!