Totally with you Carol!

I still would like to know if a dog that's trained to bite the sleeve can retain a soft mouth for retrieving. It would seem to me to be difficult for a dog.

Janice,

Our lab will play tug and chew his Orbee ball when playing, but with birds he is soft mouthed.
I think this is more due to the training we are doing with him.

Doug runs him on the hunts and I run him for conditioning, play time and obedience work so I think that also plays a big part.

Some, maybe even most, bird dogs are not good with doing both tug and birds......they are not taught to decipher what is acceptable when playing or hunting and there is also the whole myth that bird dogs should not play rough at all.

Thanks, Carol. I was just picturing a lab chomping a duck in two. I guess dogs are smarter than that, though!

My dog has not had issues with having a hard mouth with birds. I also use a tug for training obedience. I grew up in South Dakota and North Dakota and the hunting here in Arizona just cannot be compared so we don't do a lot of hunting here.

I was not suggesting that a revolution in breeding for protection retrievers should happen. I completely disagree that any breed can't or shouldn't be used for cross-training in different sports/lines of work. My mal's father is titled in Mondioring (3), Frenchring (3), Schutzhund (3), AKC obedience, flyball, temperment testing, dock diving AND retriever trials. He has also done some herding work but did not compete. Many of the dogs in the lines are diversified across many sports as well.

I think the biggest disappointment for any breed or mix is people who choose NOT to do ANYTHING with their dogs...

 Quote:

I was not suggesting that a revolution in breeding for protection retrievers should happen. I completely disagree that any breed can't or shouldn't be used for cross-training in different sports/lines of work.

I think the biggest disappointment for any breed or mix is people who choose NOT to do ANYTHING with their dogs...

My thoughts exactly. Know your dog and his limits, but find what he is interested in and DO SOMETHING!

Nicole wrote in part:

"I completely disagree that any breed can't or shouldn't be used for cross-training in different sports/lines of work. My mal's father is titled in Mondioring (3), Frenchring (3), Schutzhund (3), AKC obedience, flyball, temperment testing, dock diving AND retriever trials. He has also done some herding work but did not compete. Many of the dogs in the lines are diversified across many sports as well."

I agree with your above. But my concern, as recited in my post, was once the market demands in numbers, these working breeds that require only a small part of there function in order to be successful, breeders will begin selecting and then breeding for those limited abilities, that were made available by there original function. Sort of like breeding just for showing. Norman

 Quote: Norman Epstein

I agree with your above. But my concern, as recited in my post, was once the market demands in numbers, these working breeds that require only a small part of there function in order to be successful, breeders will begin selecting and then breeding for those limited abilities, that were made available by there original function. Sort of like breeding just for showing. Norman

I agree with you there. I value breed preservation but do also think that breed evolution, as long as it is for the better or some type of purpose, is okay. For example, my lab comes from lines that are now being selectively bred for those labs that are pointing on the field, now of course not all offspring have a tendency for it but they are selecting for it. Now perhaps some lab traditionalists would not like this behavior or do not like the 'look' of some of the dogs but I think it is great. These dogs don't seem to be as traditionally 'blocky', have stamina to go all day, are amazing on the field and are now even able to do not only what labs have always been doing but also now what 'pointers' have been doing all along as well.

I would prefer to see ppl to be doing good breeding at least for some purpose than the ppl that breed with reckless abandon that I seem to encounter as the majority. I always laugh since we have started doing AKC obedience shows b/c you need the height of the dog to determine jump heights. 'How high is your malinois?' they ask. I had to shrug, put my hand to my side and say...'I don't know...about this high.' I laughed b/c I had no idea...I don't really care how many inches it is as long as it is healthy and the dog works.

Nicole wrote in part:

I value breed preservation but do also think that breed evolution, as long as it is for the better or some type of purpose,

Again we agree but I don't consider a Lab jumping off of a dock preserving the breed but only preserving one small aspect of that breed. That selective breeding will not preserve biddability, work ethic, correct nerve and temperament. What it will produce is just another one trick pony that will be put on the wood pile of failed breeds once the popularity of dock jumping runs it course as it most certainly will. Norman

"Again we agree but I don't consider a Lab jumping off of a dock preserving the breed but only preserving one small aspect of that breed. That selective breeding will not preserve biddability, work ethic, correct nerve and temperament."

That ship sailed long ago. Unless you buy a dog (lab/gsd/pointer etc, etc) from a breeder that cares, the ship has not only sailed it's out of sight.

DFrost