Also, let's remember that if the founder of the German Shepherd, Max von Stephanitz was still alive today that he'd be doing his old trick of pulling out his revolver and chasing most of the weak Show dogs off the field ( which he did at an SV show during his colorful life... ).

 Quote: Will Rambeau

Ohh man.....I could get back in shape, run *every* dog in the show off the field......and buy a new dog truck with the cash!

And Charlie......we all knew about your hallucinations....it's part of your charm!

Will, by the looks of the dogs you wouldn't need to be in shape, or even move much to chase them off the field. Just make a scary noise - they'll all bolt to tommorrow!!!

Will, if I could see that, I could then die in peace.

ok, i watched a couple of the videos....can i ask a dumb newb question?

are the dogs supposed to get shoved back like that once they've bitten and are latched on?

That phase is called driving the dog. It's a standard part of the exercise. The dog should grip the sleeve fully and calmly. The helper will drive the dog, waving the padded stick over the dog. After several steps, the helper will slap the dog on the shoulder with the padded stick.

The objective is to see if the dog will maintain it's grip in the face of a threat. It's primarily a test of nerves and confidence.

Here is a nice photo of John Bohchenek driving Steve Croley's female at last fall's Mideastern Regionals. Notice the dog has the sleeve fully in her mouth. You can't see it in this shot, but her focus was on the helper's face.
http://www.2008hotusa.com/2008HOT/JohnBochenek.aspx
another one of Lotus Perkins driving Mike Diehl's dog, Basco, at the 2006 MER Championships. Again notice the full grip and focus on the helper face. John & Basco later won the USA Nationals that year.
http://www.mytrialphotos.com/MER2006/Diehl-Mike(Basco)/slides/MER06-3171.html

Both John & Lotus are demonstrating excellent technique on these exercises.

This is how the dogs should grip on the exercise.


The real problem at the Sieger Shows is not the dogs, its the judging. If weak performances are permitted and even rewarded, that is what you get. If the task is judged as defined in the USA rulebook, most of those dogs would get trained to the point where they can meet the standard.

Good helpers can do it just with sheer presense and attitude.

 Quote:

Will, by the looks of the dogs you wouldn't need to be in shape, or even move much to chase them off the field. Just make a scary noise - they'll all bolt to tommorrow!!!

Not good dogs, Charlie.

i can see the difference....thanks!

Hi Everyone,

I am very green in this arena, but watching those videos made me shudder. From my very amateur point of view, what really stands out is just how uninterested and lax these dogs are.

I have seen videos of working lines on the field, and the degree of focus these dogs have has such amazing intensity. You can tell they are EXCITED and they WANT to perform.

I have a West German showline Alsatian, and I love her. I plan to go into schutzhund with her for the appreciation of the sport and as an activity we can enjoy together. Some day, when I feel I have more experience, I would love to own a working line.

I saw a Mal once, and I admit, I wanted that dog. She was very intense. That is the simplest way I could describe her. And I felt bad because the owners are raising her as a pet. I told them she needs a 'job', and they said her job was to just chase and retrieve the ball. O_o

But these dogs are ... considered the creme de la creme? And they are SchH 3?

I don't plan to breed my pup. So how far she goes, it doesn't matter. As long as we have fun! But I do agree with the general consensus about the politics that goes into this.

My humble two cents,
Rei

That is correct. The good dogs will drive in. The weak ones will not engage, will have a less than full grip or will come off the sleeve.

It's why we test them.

There is a guy who will be dining and sleeping at Ohio taxpayer expense for the next twenty years or so. He had been around pits & rotties and thought he could run the patrol dog off when he attacked the dog's handler. He was a pretty good-sized guy. He had the poor judgement to try to run off one of the better dogs in the area. Griff's dad is Tom van't Leefdaalhof the 1999 WUSV champion. Tom goes back to Querry von Haus Antverpa (4x in WUSV) and Orry von Haus Antverpa (3x WUSV Sieger). Long story short, Griff pressed the attack forward even after being body slammed into the coffee table and breaking it and being choked nearly unconscious. The deputies had to hit the guy will multiple Tasers to bring him under control. Griff is also the dog that Kathy's grandkids like to play with when they come to visit. Clearly this mental toughness, athleticism and stability didn't happen by accident.

Needless to say, I really like Griff.

In my perfect world, the ideal German Shepherd can win the Sieger Show and the Bundesieger. That hasn't happened since around the time of Bernd vom Lierberg (VA in conformation and V in the BSP). Do you think that this dog ( Click Here ) would even get a 'G' rating under today's conformation judge's?

Ed's old dog, Natan, was also one of those dogs -- V-rated in conformation, a strong competitor at the Nationals, and a pleasure to have around the home.