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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17669 - 10/25/2002 02:49 PM |
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Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
I think the drivey, wild behavior should be ACTIVELY encouraged... for at least the first few months... if you want MAXIMUM drive.
It is.. its called bitework!!!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
-Matt |
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17670 - 10/25/2002 03:02 PM |
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And... I suppose that if you started this at 7 weeks of age, the dog would have even MORE drive right?
This entire thread concerns VERY young pups.
(around 10 weeks)
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17671 - 10/25/2002 03:21 PM |
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in my mind... he would have no more drive, and no less...
Drive is not something that you can fabricate.. we can only work with what the dog's genetics bring to the table.....
everything after that is just training <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
-Matt |
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17672 - 10/25/2002 03:22 PM |
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Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
I don't agree that simply "not punishing" drivey or wild behavior is good enough with young pups.
I think the drivey, wild behavior should be ACTIVELY encouraged... for at least the first few months... if you want MAXIMUM drive. Who said not punishing is good enough??? We said the drive is actively built thru play, but it won't HURT drive to channel it for brief moments also. The term "building drive" has nothing to do with activities like dragging you down the road or tearing up your garbage or eating your slippers or any other high energy activity that the pup choses to engage it. You're supposed to be building a SPECIFIC DRIVE, that means PREY normally, in such a young pup. So unless you are actively directing his energy into prey activities, you aren't doing a thing to build "drive".
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17673 - 10/25/2002 03:49 PM |
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Ok... since the thoughtfulness level just increased again... one more observation. The original post said NOTHING about channeling drive... just waiting until the dog was calm.
My concern was that the dog may learn that it must be calm on the leash BEFORE it learned that it was ok to go to full drive in certain situations.
I specifically said that what is done AFTER the dog gives attention (ie play ball etc) is key.
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17674 - 10/25/2002 04:14 PM |
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Dave, you clearly missed my point.
by "waiting" for a action, you are not imposing obedience, therefore, it should have nothing to do with what happens on a leash, or on the training field...
by the way, waiting for an action is a form of channeling, what do you think is going on during a motivationally trained heeling session? looks like channeling to me.. but apparently I am not "thoughtful" enough.....
then again, my wife is always telling me that.....
-Matt |
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17675 - 10/25/2002 04:42 PM |
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Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
You keep using words like "capping drive" focus, calm... for a 10 WEEK OLD pup? And you DON'T think this is rushing it?
Of course focus is important. But will it hurt the pup to wait until 16 or 24 weeks?... or is that too late?
I prefer not to "cap drive" until the glass is completely full. Do you think this pup is at MAXIMUM drive at 10 weeks? Dave,
I seem to recall your young female at the seminar, didn't she have tons of drive?? Wasn't your main problem lack of focus??(sorry if I have your dog confused with someone elses).........if you build drive and just let it ooze out of the dog without ever capping it, the dog can become a drivey but hectic and unfocused adult. Habits are formed every day, not at some magical age of 6 months or 12 months. Why not show the puppy what you want now?? (in small puppy sized increments, of course)
I am not saying that focus and calm behavior must be taught in utero here. I am saying if a pup can give 5 seconds of attention calmly before feeding then I break, say "Yes, good puppy" and feed. The next day I ask for 6 seconds and no negative happens if I don't get it. I do the same for going outside, playing ball, anything else I can think of.
SchH3FH2 and Matt, I am glad what I have said previously made sense to someone! LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17676 - 10/25/2002 04:56 PM |
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Cindy... it should not surprise you that my 11 month old lacked focus since we used very little correction with her at a young age.
But what did we have... DRIVE... and now we have both drive AND focus because with drive, focus can be added in later.
I'd like to see someone start with focus and THEN bring out drive... now THAT would be interesting.
By the way, thanks for the compliment on my dog. She is looking awesome! We plan to do Shutzhund after competing in French Ring.
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17677 - 10/25/2002 05:17 PM |
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Dave,
Why do you think you can't have focus without corrections?? You totally miss the whole point here.
The core of training for me, whether it's to do ring,schutzhund,tracking, obedience, agility, basket weaving , whatever......is to TEACH my dog to focus!!!!!!!! Focus on a task--- and in order to be able to do that the first step is for me to teach him!! It's so simple. Didn't you pay attention at Bernhard's seminar?? It doesnt' only apply to schutzhund.
The drive will be there because I develop it and because I select puppies that exhibit the behaviors that my experience tells me are good!!
I think you don't see the forest for the trees.
We are way off topic here........some moderator needs to close this thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Using Horse Training Ideas
[Re: Doyle W. Banks ]
#17678 - 10/25/2002 05:25 PM |
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Simple... because when you get on a strange field, other dogs, people and other distractions will ALWAYS seem more interesting than the ball or toy that the dog sees every day... even with good training.
Ultimately the dog has to know that paying attention to other things will result in punishment.
Are you saying that you DON'T use correction in training?
At the seminar... Bernhard spent a great deal of time showing us how to use the e-collar and prong.... its a vital part of the program.
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