Quote: diane joslin

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

I'd just force him and make him deal with it. A dog does what I say he should do because I said he has to. He will get over it when he realizes nothing really changed.

Sure - sounds like a wonderful way to break the bond and trust that your dog has in you!

Completely the opposite!

By allowing the dog to continue behaving this way about the new car tires you are allowing the dog to practice a habit. When the habit forms then it becomes harder to break, because in the dogs mind it is now OK for him to freak out over a car tire and it re-affirms his belief that there is something different with the car that is causing you to act differently.

If you are calm, positive, and firm with the dog that he must get in the car because there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, then he will get over it when he realizes that nothing actually changed. If he loves car rides, then obviously this becomes self rewarding. He figures out that not only did nothing change, but he gets to ride in the car and go somewhere fun.

If the dog outweighs the owner then have someone help.

A good comparison is a dog who is afraid of the water and afraid to swim. A friend of mine spent a year on and off to get their 130lb great dane to swim in the pool. They tried coaxing and treating and using toys, bribes, lures, everything. I told em one day "I bet you I can get her to swim in 20 seconds." They laughed. I grabbed the leash, the prong collar and the dog. I was nice about it, but I made her get in, I guided her, I helped her understand she wasn't going to die in the water, I took her back to the steps after swimming a short circle. I did it again. Then the 3rd time the dog went in without force and swam in a circle happy as a clam. I'm not saying "toss the dog in and let him figure it out." You need to guide them, but don't baby the issue.

You don't have to yell at the dog, kick em in the butt and tell em "GET IN THE *(#$&#(*$& CAR!!!" But don't call attention to the issue or it will only get worse. This goes for everything in a dogs life. Unless the dog is an abused rescue that is totally fearful of everything in the world, if the dog is generally good with things and mentally sound then the more you drag it out, the more it stays with the dog.

It's weird that you said that thing about swimming. I live near many lakes and rivers. Two of the dogs I had in the past were scared to go in the water over ankle deep.

I didn't know if it was right or wrong at the time but I calmly grabbed them by the collar and pulled them in.

After a couple of times of that and they were happily fetching tennis balls thrown far into the lake.

That's before I knew tennis balls were a no no. Now I use rubber balls.

Thats exactly it, its the handlers responsibility to show the dog that something isn't worth being scared over. Hurting the bond would be letting the dog drown in the water. Strengthening the bond is showing the dog you were right when you told him to get in the water.

Hi.
Just my 2 cents, though it sort of repeats what Mike is saying.

My dog Lily has gone through a few strange spells like this.
The one I remember best had to do with the garage. She didn't want to walk past it. Which was a problem because we have to walk past it to get to the yard.

Coaxing with treats and all that good stuff sounds great, but when Lily is fearful and avoidant she won't take food. This is saying a lot because she is absolutely what Ed would call a Food Hound. (We are learning that she'll make an exception for raw meat even during horrifying bath time, but that is another story...)

And correcting can seem dicey and potentially unproductive ... maybe a risk of confirming for the dog that there really ARE bad things going on with the fear object.

Anyhow, the way we ultimately dealt with the garage thing was to just keep walking at normal pace, basically ignoring Lily except to cheerfully say "come-come!" right as the leash went taught. Didn't even look back at her, or break stride ... nor did we give an extra yank to the leash. (She's 50 pounds, so we can pull off this maneuver.)

So, like Mike is saying: communicating with voice and action that nothing exceptional is going on, one way or the other.

-Jesse

 Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood

Completely the opposite!

By allowing the dog to continue behaving this way about the new car tires you are allowing the dog to practice a habit. When the habit forms then it becomes harder to break, because in the dogs mind it is now OK for him to freak out over a car tire and it re-affirms his belief that there is something different with the car that is causing you to act differently.

If you are calm, positive, and firm with the dog that he must get in the car because there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, then he will get over it when he realizes that nothing actually changed. If he loves car rides, then obviously this becomes self rewarding. He figures out that not only did nothing change, but he gets to ride in the car and go somewhere fun. ...

I'm pretty much ditto-ing what this and subsequent posts said. I've done long hard work with a couple of seriously panic-stricken dogs who could do nothing but tremble, back to the wall (and one who was terrified of an electric wheelchair to the point of urinating down his leg when he heard it), but this isn't that.

Something like a new fear that's just budding (like the tires) is indeed something that I treat exactly the way these last few posters do: I am calm and in control and I move forward with the dog. Period.

Alright - I gotcha all and I understand all of your points. As was said, the dog outweighs me so I can't lift her into the car myself, and my husband is out of the country until next week, but if it won't break her trust in me to make her get in the car, then I will do it! I just didn't want to force her and then ruin the car experience forever. But if it will reinforce her trust that I wouldn't put her in harms way and there is nothing different about the car, then I'll just keep it nonchalant and make her get in.

I was already thinking today that I would just put the car back inside the gate and open the doors and maybe lay some treats around leading up to it and in it, and then ignore it. And let Star go in in her own time. But as Jesse's dog Lily ignores food when she's afraid, so does Star - she's a complete food hound but in the face of fear she will turn it down.

But if I ignore the "issue" and let the car just be out there in the driveway inside the gate and go on as if nothing is different, then when it comes time to go somewhere I'll just make her get in. And if I can't get her in then my husband can make her get in when he gets home. He outweighs her by far.

This is good to know - we live by the sea and Star also hates the water. Don't know if she's afraid or if she just dislikes it - although she tolerates a shower and loves to chase the hose in the yard. We would like her to learn to swim to work her muscles without putting pressure on her joints. So I guess we'll have her get in the water this summer also. But one thing at a time! :-)

thanks everyone!

A lot (maybe 90%) of the success you have depends on your own demeanor.

I would practice (seriously), alone first, moving forward with head-high authority and calm voice. I've done that. And I always remind myself that I cannot be anxious or worried about it, because that does one thing: It reinforces the dog's anxiety.

If, in practice she fails then it may be more difficult later.

Scratch that. I thought you meant practice with the dog.

 Quote: Howard Knauf

Scratch that. I thought you meant practice with the dog.

Right .. I definitely did not.

I often have to gather myself first, whether it's a physical thing like unholstering pepper foam and using it, or a mental thing like staying calm and low-key-but-upbeat with a fearful dog.