Kim, he does not sound neurotic, he just sounds like a dog that never learned or had any boundaries.

You don't need to redirec his chewing with food. Use toys, something high value that you only use to play with him or to redirect off of something. Don't leave any toy around all the time for him to have whenever he pleases, that decreases the value of the item.

How do you know he "knows" the commands? Especially stay/place, he likely only knows to stay there for 30 seconds.

I very strongly suggest rethinking and researching marker training.

You are also lucky he has any attention span at all for training since you only use his regular kibble. Evo is an excellent kibble IMO but dogs do thrive on variety and for training you need something high value to the dog to maintain its attention and interest.

 Quote: kim wibbing

.... He's eaten part of a remote, a pencil, and finished off his retractable leash. Sigh. All on my daughter's watch while I'm here at the computer for a minute typing. (argh!) ... I had him upstairs while I was putting away laundry early today and he lunged for some socks. I said no, then gave a really hard jerk on the prong and he whimpered but after that didn't go after a sock on my watch. ...

He doesn't sound neurotic to me either. I think that your last dog might've been lower-energy (and older?) and that you maybe expect that of all dogs now. But high energy isn't neurotic.

He has access to way too much trouble, though.

He will be better with more consistent upbeat (shorter sessions, BTW!) training and exercise, and he shouldn't be loose to even get at all the things that were listed until he's much much better at "drop it." (Puppies can't have the in-the-house freedom of an older dog.)

If he is not tethered to you, then he is pottying or walking on the leash, having a training session, or eating. That's it. That's what crates are about.

If his "sit" is good for 30 seconds, then I'll bet money that all he knows is that his butt is supposed to hit the ground. And that's great! :-)

This dog sounds totally normal for an untrained high-energy dog.

I'd start over with marker training. I'd read the LB article tonight and start from the beginning tomorrow, with HV treats (not his meal-food) and a simple exercise like sit.

Remember that when you mark, the command is over! (I bring that up again because if you are marking and rewarding when his butt touches the ground for "sit," then you can't later expect that "sit" means "stay there.")

It will be very good to stay calm. The prong correction sounds like maybe a little frustration/anger taking over. It's far better for him to be in the crate, tired after some good exercise, than out of the crate surrounded by stuff he can't have.

If you back up with marker training and consistency, then a smart dog like this one is going to be a wonderful student. I promise you that.

http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

Kim, good luck. Mine still won't hold a place or stay for 30 seconds. I think 30 seconds is really good for a young energetic breed. I hadn't had a puppy in 20 years (had a boxer that died from old age) so if you haven't had a puppy in a while, too, it seems like it takes forever for them to settle down. Mine was also a death row inmate when rescued from a shelter and had no manners.

I say, tether, tether, tether. It has made a real difference in my dog and she is small and energetic.

Also, with the treats - make sure they are really, really small and make sure they are something of very high value. Mine will lose interest quickly in treats that are not high value. That's why we never throw out meat leftovers or scraps here, they make nice treats.

You may also want to try 5 minute ob sessions instead of 15 minutes.

On the days that are really a drag and you feel like he isn't making progress, don't feel guilty about putting him in his crate so you can get things done and he doesn't destroy the house. I always give mine a treat when I put her in the crate - but it is not a high value treat(Newman's Own dog cookies) and she never looks at her crate as punishment.You will be calmer and can deal with him easier.

I also read here(I think) that many dogs are not given freedom in the house until they are up to 24 months old. That co-insides with adult age.

You might try calling his name when he is tethered to you and when he looks at you, mark that behavior and give him a treat then gradually you can give him a pet and good boy instead of treat and then eventually get him to come using treats at first.

Mine can't resist coming to me when I have her untethered now because she knows it is always a treat or a pet on the head with a good girl or good come.

Good luck.

 Quote: nora ferrell

Also, with the treats - make sure they are really, really small and make sure they are something of very high value. Mine will lose interest quickly in treats that are not high value. That's why we never throw out meat leftovers or scraps here, they make nice treats.

This is the best new thing I learned today! I feel like "duh" that it never dawned on me before to add leftovers to the rewards baggie, even though I know my dogs all love cooked vegetables and the skin from fish, etc. I have always put them in their dishes instead of using them to change up the training treats and keep them exciting.

Connie, I did the 'duh' thing, too, and thought 'why the heck am I putting that in her dish?' when she will do a command for it.

After all, we eat basically the same things, except mine is cooked and I don't eat bones.

 Quote: Nora Ferrell

Connie, I did the 'duh' thing, too, and thought 'why the heck am I putting that in her dish?' when she will do a command for it.

Well, I have a baggie all set in the 'fridge already ... has some salmon skin and some cooked green beans in it, all squishing around together, getting yummy. Variety!

I think if I was working with this dog, I would use a combination of marker training with food and also use a toy of some sort. this dog is telling you in no uncertain terms he wants to play. Use play to your advantage. Make his idea YOUR idea. Use a game of tug or fetch as a reward sometimes.

You say Pack Training "didn't help". I have to say that it didn't help because you haven't set yourself up for success. It's not the concept that didn't work, it's the application of the concept.

If you don't want a dog to grab things he shouldn't have, then make sure he can't reach things he shouldn't have.

I wouldn't take a toddler and put him in reach of things he shouldn't have and then be surprised when he grabbed them. With kids we move things up high, and out of reach. Having a dog is no different.

I can't say this enough--Control the dog's environment, 100%. Every day, not just for a month or two with a high energy dog. Creating new habits takes time and consistency. 2 months of doing something may seem like a long time, but to a dog that has had his own way for 15 months it's only the beginning.

 Quote: Kim Wibbing

For treats I'm simply using the dog food he's eating (evo innova. dog eats pretty good imho.) . Also, I'm trying the tethering idea that you use from now on. I've got him tied to me to free my hands right now.

Today has been bad, LOL. He's eaten part of a remote, a pencil, and finished off his retractable leash. Sigh. All on my daughter's watch while I'm here at the computer for a minute typing. (argh!)

Kim, using EVO as training treats won't hold his interest for long. EVO's a great kibble, but you want to be using HIGH VALUE treats for training. Try the liver or cooked chicken that was suggested. The leftover suggestion is a great one too. When you are doing obedience w/ him, keep it short and sweet so that he doesn't have time to get bored.

Also, no one is suggesting that you be giving the dog treats to keep him from chewing on things. He should be made to do something for each and every treat.

When the dog is tethered to you, you will want to have something that he can chew on/work at to keep him from bugging the crap out of you. Get yourself a kong and fill it with one of the mixtures suggested; freeze it and it will keep him working at it even longer.

If he's not tethered to you or being directly supervised by you, he should be in his crate. If he has free access to the house, put up baby gates or keep doors closed to limit his access to areas where he can get into trouble.

Can you arrange your life to get the dog more exercise? Playing games like hide-n-seek w/ your daughter, or hiding a ball for him to find, or playing fetch with a ball are fun ways for him to get more exercise, in addition to daily walks. Try to get his tongue hanging!

I think the problem w/ the prong at this stage is that it may irreparably harm your bond w/ the dog. Tethering will accomplish the same thing and create a closer bond; if he doesn't have access to inappropriate things to chew, then no need for a harsh prong correction.

I think you are on the right track! Stick with it and try to incoroprate some of the suggestions that you have received, and keep us posted...

We've been tethering more over the last few days and he seems to be cooperating more.

I don't leave things out, my daugher does. THe struggle is with her cleaning up after herself. But again, she's not holding him as much anymore, only in emergencies.

He does lose interest in the toys quickly so I rotate them and I have a basket up high where we put them away. I've tried baiting with a toy and it hasn't worked yet. Esp if he gets a pencil, lol. ANyway hopefully he won't be getting any pencils again. Remember we homeschool so there are books and pencils, etc all over the place with the girl. Again, always after her to pick up. She resents having to work around the dog. Oh well I say.


I've always had young dogs. This is the first one I've had that had the chewing that won't quit and constant lunging for somethng. He is getting better, but progress is just too slow to suit me I guess. I've had cocker and poodles and this is just a mix of the 2?? The cocker we had chewed, but we only had to tell him once to stop and he stopped. He didn't have the drive that this one has. (And he was only 12 mths, also.) The poodle didn't have any chew problems except for his bed in the crate so we only had to take it out and problem solved.

It is more than just being untrained, IMHO. He really does have an obsession but he is getting better. (Not an obsession really, just a LOT of drive.)

He hasn't any freedom in the house, not since the first week he arrived home. He's always on a leash which bugs him and that's why he's chewing through about 4 of them. Now it's a chain one, so he can't chew it. ONce I thought he was licking his foot, but he was finishing off his leash and I didn't realize it. He's good, LOL. (Sitting right there looking down at him, head down and "licking" it seemed...then I got suspicious when it didn't stop after a few mins and got onto the floor and sure 'nough, the leash was toast.)

IMHO, how is he ever going to learn not to grab/lunge if you're keeping everything away, any way? Sooner or later he'll have to live in this house with the rest of us. I say, leave the stuff out and say "no" enough that he gets the idea. The dog has to live with us, not the other way around, IMHO. I did the same thing with my daughter. But she took "no" for an ans and usually stopped right away. He does for a couple of mins and then tries again with something else. He doesn't understand yet that he isn't supposed to chew on anything except his toys, but he's learning. I think the other house gave him lots of cloth/fun fur, etc toys and he doesn't know the diff between them and socks and shoes, for ex.


Later,
Kim

 Quote: Kim Wibbing

... (Not an obsession really, just a LOT of drive.) ... IMHO, how is he ever going to learn not to grab/lunge if you're keeping everything away, any way? Sooner or later he'll have to live in this house with the rest of us. ...

Sooner or later he will not be a chewy puppy.

Drive in a dog (and this one's famed intelligence ) make the dog easier to train, with motivation and consistency.

You could spend his puppy months saying no and giving severe corrections, or you could control his environment and enjoy motivational obedience training.

The tethering will help both pack structure reinforcement and bonding.