You know what Charlie - who cares how bad the blood is between clubs or between Hanrahan and one of these club members? I dont care if one of them was caught sleeping with the other ones wife (not the case here) it still DOES NOT MATTER - who in their right mind does this?

Maybe the solution is for people to run for office and change things. But with this said I have been a member since 1976 (do the math - 32 years) and these kinds of incidences have happened again and again.

Frankly I dont think I will renew my membership and I recommend others divorce themselves from Schutzhund USA. New people should look to MONDIO RING and not Schutzhund - and certainly not Schutzhund USA. The leadership is a failed leadership - it harbors crony ism and tolerates people like Hanrahan doing things like this. He should be ashamed of himself.

 Quote: Betty Waldron

Nope you have DVG and/or WDA that you can join. If you join DVG, even if there are not any clubs in your are you may use your DVG scorebook at a USA trial. I get confused on WDA/USA--if you can use one scorebook at another's trial. There is some bad history between the two organizations and it gets a little crazy.

You CAN use WDA scorebooks at USA trials, and vice versa. At least as of 2006.

Back to reading the rest of the thread...I find this situation so appalling and sad. I personally spend hours every week looking to PROMOTE Schutzhund sport specifically, and working sports generally, to anyone who is willing to listen. The old fights between organizations and the old corruption are just one big honking wet blanket on the whole thing.

I hope as a community, we can focus on enjoying our training, fair trials and keeping the disparate organizations as honest as we can, rather than doing the working line / show lines / whichever breed/ sniping that sometimes occurs....

Beth

I dont think there is a club with in 100 miles of me, but I thought well h*ll I can still join online that way if anyone interested saw I was a member here they feel so bad. I have to say not now I dont think I will ever be a member now. I have a queston for yall seasoned members if you really feel so strongly against the sport the way you do why dont yall change it. I really dont think it would be that hard once you got the ball rolling. Convert whole clubs at a time. Start with the one you are in and go from there.

Heck call it USA Schutzhund or better yet American Schutzhund then you could use that to get more Canadain members. But if you took whole clubs I dont think it would take more than a year to really complete just someone with a really good name in the sports world would have to promote it.

I know it might be impossible I dont know what USA does if club sign contracts or what but I would love to hear why I am wrong.

Beth

You look at this sport the way it should be looked at - for the joy of training and doing something with our dog.

Unfortunately when things like this happen and the USA board of directors AKA President chooses to ignore it then this becomes a club that is not worthy of people like yourself. Send your membership money someplace else because Schutzhund USA is like that movie "DEAD MAN WALKING" . It is a dieing organization that deserves to die because those who are elected officials are not willing to stand up and put a stop to things like this.

The only one I know of who ever had the gonads to challenge Hanrahan was Donna Rednaur - she should have been the president of this organization because she could have done it a lot of good. But those days ended when she got out of the politics. Too bad that happened.

 Quote: michael haddon

I have a queston for yall seasoned members if you really feel so strongly against the sport the way you do why dont yall change it. I really dont think it would be that hard once you got the ball rolling. Convert whole clubs at a time. Start with the one you are in and go from there.

Mike,
Most clubs make a decision early when they're forming about which organization to affiliate with - and as people have remarked, SchH USA is by far the largest SchH organization in the country, and that's a big draw.
But as an organization, SchH USA has been steadily losing membership for several years now ( this year was the first positive growth year in seven years, if I remember correctly ) and I believe a key reason for this is that the leadership of SchH USA is not dedicated to it's average member - the very top competitors are allowed to consistently bend and break rules that would result in suspensions against the "average" member. And so the average members sees this constant favoritism and eventually votes with their feet.
And the entire sport loses due to the poor decisions of the leadership of SchH USA.

Obvious favoritism by judges is also the reason that I would not support the WDA in any fashion whatsoever.



That being said, I was one of the three founding members of my current SchH club ( and the only member that had titled a dog in SchH previously ) and I pushed our club to form under DVG, and we've never regretted that choice.
We have twelve active members and DVG's gain is SchH USA's loss.

 Quote: betty waldron

No, you can use a DVG scorebook at a USA trial if you are not a member of USA. I *think* you may have to be a member of USA to trial at a regional level or above, I'm not sure.

But I think the average member that just wants to have fun with their dog and trial at a club level would have no problem not belonging to USA if they choose not to.

I was only pointing out that UScA holds the overwhelming majority of trials, of course I think people who want to quit the organization would then not be so hypocritical as to still trial at their trials, would they?

Quit if you want, people are saddly mistaken if they think quitting over this will facilitate any change. If you quit, you are quitters, that's it. I am reminded of Bill O'Reilly telling people to boycott Target because they wanted their employees to say "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas".

Susan, you're dead wrong there - quitting *does* affect change.

Let's say just 25 people quit over this ( entirely possible, and I'll be one of them ) - that's the equivalent of *TWO* entire SchH clubs.
Gone.

Do you really think that when an organization is already losing members at a rapid rate that things like this don't accelerate the trend?

And as far as being a "quitter", I've been an active SchH handler for 25 years now, I've titled 14 or 15 dogs and done helper work or laid tracks for dozens of SchH trials - if that makes me a "quitter", let me known when you've put the years and effort that I've put into this sport, and then come talk to me.

Hopefully, those "quitter" like me will just continue to compete in DVG trials and maintain their DVG membership, I vote with my feet *and* my checkbook, as I hope others will.

Ed, thank you so much for the vote of confidence regarding the most important goals of our little training group - learning and having fun.

While several individual participants of our group are members of the USA and/or WDA and/or "other," our group as a whole is not an official "Club" under USA, or WDA or "other." (full disclosure - Gary and I are members of both WDA and USA individually)

I have not been approached by DVG or any "other" but I HAVE been approached by WDA and USA, and have discussed the plusses and minusses of official Club Status under both organizations.

Under both organizations, we have thus far found absolutely no benefits of membership. Why sign up for the restrictions and fees, with no benefits? (We don't need to host trials here - our "parent club" can do that - so what's the other benefit??)

I have had personal discussions about Joliet Schutzhund, and potential Club status, with two WDA Regional Directors, and also a Director from the USA. One of the Big Issues they have with how Joliet Schutzhund runs, is that we PAY OUR TEACHING HELPER / TRAINING DIRECTOR - over the top of the table, not just under the table. He gets paid a specific sum every Saturday by everyone who trains here.

Apparently according to the WDA and USA "rules," these people are supposed to be running charities. Well, not here. We are mainly beginners (but we welcome more advanced people who just need some help with fine tuning). We believe that when our teaching helper / instructor drives two hours each way to train us every Saturday, he aught to be compensated in a fair manner. (not just tips under the table that are unspecified, etc. etc.)

That's MY big(gest) problem with both the WDA and USA. Why on earth should my trainer with 30 years experience be donating his time???? Mean time, I'm glad no pompous a$$ in an SUV ever drove over MY tracks.

Beth

 Quote: ed frawley

Beth

You look at this sport the way it should be looked at - for the joy of training and doing something with our dog.

Unfortunately when things like this happen and the USA board of directors AKA President chooses to ignore it then this becomes a club that is not worthy of people like yourself. Send your membership money someplace else because Schutzhund USA is like that movie "DEAD MAN WALKING" . It is a dieing organization that deserves to die because those who are elected officials are not willing to stand up and put a stop to things like this.

The only one I know of who ever had the gonads to challenge Hanrahan was Donna Rednaur - she should have been the president of this organization because she could have done it a lot of good. But those days ended when she got out of the politics. Too bad that happened.

Trials are open to non members of USA Susan. Good Lord, most clubs could not afford to put on a trial in Florida without the other scorebooks showing up.

I don't feel dropping membership and trialing under a different scorebook would be hypercritical at all, and with the expense of putting on a trial I think most clubs are very happy to see the entry fee regardless of scorebook.