This could be the best dog most of the time, but when he is bad he is very bad. You need to be handling him like he is dangerous, not just hope that these type of incidences won't occur again. You really can't gamble with a dog maiming or killing people. A dog this size could kill someone, especially a child, before you could stop it.

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Trainer advised that he was dominant and that he had high fight drive. Never really touched on prey drive

Ok this really stood out at me. Fight drive? What sort of work has been done with this dog to determin that he has a lot of fight drive? How much/what kind of experience does this trainer have to evaluate fight drive in a dog?

You say he has never bit another dog/never fought with other dogs and the bites on people were all very minor either from catching it on time or possibly other reasons.

Good that you took the initiative and went to classes to train him but what kind of work has he had one on one with you and a trainer without other dogs/distractions? Is he obedient or does he only obey once in a while? What sort of dominant behavior does he exhibit(towards you, the trainer, other people etc) aside from those bites being potential dominance issues?

How often is he crated? What kind of exercise does he get/training during the day or week?

Sorry for all the questions I am just trying to get as much information as possible to give you the best advice I can.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

 Quote:

Trainer advised that he was dominant and that he had high fight drive. Never really touched on prey drive

OK. Get a new trainer. Sorry but, its just me being an ass again.

Howard

 Quote: Howard Knauf

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

 Quote:

Trainer advised that he was dominant and that he had high fight drive. Never really touched on prey drive

OK. Get a new trainer. Sorry but, its just me being an ass again.

Howard

I agree here, but, I do have a question/comment.....

True fight drive, I know, is really a rare trait from the way it has been explained to me, so, couldn't it or wouldn't it be a large possibility that this dog has a huge defensive drive?

Steve, I think some dogs have an unpredictable nature. Not truly unpredictable, but reacting differently to situations which to us seem to be similar. Sometimes for reasons known to us, sometimes not known to us, no matter how well we read our dogs.

We need to know when our dogs have a tendency to react differently to same stimuli. Reacting differently can come across as unpredictable. I do believe some dogs have this type of "unpredictability" and should be dealt with accordingly. (By changing rules, etc.)

It doesn't seem to me that your dog needs a different owner. It seems that you need to have some different rules and changes in place in the way you let him interact with people, to protect him and protect others. Changes and different rules are in order. Thirty people at the same time all around him is overwhelming and can lead to the "unpredictable" behavior. A territorial dog is not going to react well to something like that (not many other dogs for that matter). Even if he has been fine in the past with a similar scenario doesn't mean he will be fine with the next one, and you've stated he's had incidents before. It's ALWAYS best not to take chances or leave it to your dog to figure out how to behave. Always err on the side of caution.

A muzzle kept him from biting that child but not from hurting her. It wasn't enough. So yes, being confined to a strong crate would have been the way to go. Just a little aside about muzzles - they can stop a bite but not a hit from the dog. A dog can hit and ram hard enough with a muzzle to seriously injure someone. Their heads are like rocks, their muzzles are hard and tough. Coming at someone with a muzzle on, even a soft muzzle, is going to hurt terribly, if not seriously injure.

 Quote: sandy moore

A dog can hit and ram hard enough with a muzzle to seriously injure someone.

100% agree. I watched a 59lb Malinois during an exhibition break three ribs on a decoy during muzzle work. The guy was 6'.4" and running about 290, not fat or out of shape.

Imagine a child.

The trainer trains gsd police dogs im pretty sure specializes bomb detection ,and not really convinced that he has this fight drive experience. We have never worked without distractions, to be quite honest after reading some posts on this discussion forum, and listening to Ed's podcasts I truly had NO clue as to how a dog should really be trained.
Ceaser is always crated while we are at work and to avoid situations with strangers. Probably every red flag of a dominant dog Ceasar has shown ( pawing,while sitting on couch he has stepped up on us, constant eye contact, wont give back toys, can't put hand on top of head etc.. etc...) He usually excersises about 10- 20 min a day just with ball (I have to use 2 balls) plus has about 3/4 of an acre fenced in that he runs most of the time we are home well until yesterday I put an 40 ft run out there(no chances). We train with him 3 times a week during walks just on basic commands sit stay down and not to go after cars people etc. this is the only thing I know. I really like the questions It shows that you are genuinely trying to help us. And I greatly APPRECIATE it. (so happy I found this site)Oh ya just purchased pack structure and aggressive dog dvd from here.

You will want to study that pack structure video.... not watch it once and put it away.

Also, that's not enough exercise (frolicking alone in the yard is not structured exercise and in fact is usually however-many hours of a dog doing nothing).

 Quote: Amber Morgan

... keep him under your direct control 100% around people and 100% contained when you can not pay full attention. ... My GSD doesn't have any of the issues with people that you describe your dog as having and there is NO way I would have had him involved in a party like that even if he'd met each and every one of them a billion times.

A huge ditto.

I would also re-think the obedience training.... three times a week on walks isn't the way to do it, IMO; several times every day in short sessions is the way to do it. Certainly every day, even if it can't be several times (but it can be).

I would read every link here:
http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#dom

and I would learn marker training too, because dominance or aggression aside, it's just the best way to train basic obedience. http://www.leerburg.com/markers.htm

You can change the way your pack is structured immediately. You will be amazed at how fast the dog will get it that you're in charge -- once you get it. And every day you will reinforce that by following the pack structure video advice and by walking with the dog and by doing basic obedience all the time. (And BTW, basic obedience is fun. It's fun for both of you.)

 Quote:

just purchased pack structure and aggressive dog dvd from here.

I think you will be so happy with these videos and they will make a huge difference.

Both the Cane and Neo are known for their stubborn and dominant nature. I have found that the Leerburg methods of training are just what my neo's work best with. I have trained on both end of the spectrum with my neos (all positive luring reward based and yank & crank). The all positive style was kind of a joke for my neos and on the other side I have one heap of a dog with absolutely no drive left because I "yanked and cranked" it out of him. He is the hardest dog to train now because of that complete lack of drive. The rest of my dogs all started out with the pack structure program and then basic obedience. The fair methods and short training times we use are very successful with this breed.

Wishing you the best,
Shannon

 Quote: jennifer marshal

Just because someone did not try to hurt or touch the dog or look at them doesn't mean those people didn't do something that triggered the dog's aggression. It does mean that the dog should be with an experience handler that can read dogs very well.

This is absolutely correct. You have work to do. If you cannot do it, starting immediately, then I agree with Will that the dog needs to be in someone else's hands.

I hope that the responses here have pointed out to you the extreme irresponsibility of such a casual attitude about past bites and about the incident at the party.

 Quote: will rambeau

I will also say that as a trainer, your attitude towards your dog biting in the past "Also a few unprevoked bites prior nothing serious" would scare the hell out of me.

The good points are that you have ordered two important videos and listened to some podcasts. You also tried to have the dog evaluated (although Howard's take on the evaluator sounds spot on).

I would look at this as a challenge that you can master, with a lot of daily effort that's going to be extremely satisfying and that you will always be glad you learned how to do.

You came to the right place.