Quote: lori hall

Well, most of this isn't new info to me. I know I'm going to have to go the derm vet route. We do have pet insurance that will help cover some of it - I called and asked. I am so tired of trying to figure it out! I got the referral today - the derm vet is about a 45 minute one way trip that of course is involving lots of traffic! I can't wait! I'll call them and see how long you have to be off meds before they can test - my vet said you even have to stop the salmon oil for some weeks before because of it's anti-inflammation properties. I hate this stuff!!

Thanks for listening to me gripe and for the advice!
Lori

Yes, you'd have an excellent grasp of canine allergies after reading Messonnier.

They (derm vets) might suggest other less costly trials before the scratch test. They also might say to wait for allergy "season" to be over so the dog doesn't have to be off antihistamines during June.

At least you are not going in blind, so to speak; you have the language and you know the questions.

It's so great to have this resource too! I didn't have it with our dog and she suffered so much with allergies worse than Kasey - I tried my best with what I knew and learned a lot because of her - like don't keep vaccinating. But I've learned a lot more here and I really appreciate it all the help!

I'm with you.

There are very few good dog boards on the internet.

This one attracts the folks who are serious dog people and who want to ask for and give help more than they want to have flame wars.

I say Good job, Ed.

 Quote: lori hall

. . .So if Kasey is 75 lb, I would have to give him about 1 c. a day of yogurt, right? Would you work up to that, or just start it? and the big question is, I suppose I need to get the expensive kind at some place like Whole Foods, right? Can you give them human probiotics in pill form, or is yogurt better?

O.k., here's what I would do for a quick, inexpensive test to see if it does any good at all:

You want plain yogurt (no flavors) with "live cultures" or "active cultures" on the label. Look for quarts of Cascade (8 cultures) or Nancy's or something other than a store brand. Price is not a factor, it's number of active cultures. Regular, low-fat - doesn't matter at this point. You'll probably find a better selection at one of the independent or smaller chain markets, like Whole Foods.

Also, get some plain kefir. In So. Calif., I think you'll find Lifeway brand (10 cultures) - http://www.lifeway.net - for store locater.

My dog loved the stuff from the start. I'd feed it 3-4 times a day for a total of at least a cup a day. I don't think more than that is bad. Work up to that amount if you have to - I don't think you will.

If it works at all, you should notice something in about 2-3 days. If you don't see any improvement in the symptoms in a few days, I think it's safe to say that in this case, the probiotics may not be helping the allergy/dermatitis symptoms.

I wouldn't bother testing with capsules or powders at this point. Most of those on the market are for human consumption and I don't think they work effectively in the short canine digestive system.

If you notice any improvement, then you can tinker with variety, brands, and such.

JMO

Mike

. . . and the subject of your post? I know the feeling. Be dealing with this (now with dog #2) for over 9 yrs.


Edited by Mike Armstrong (06/07/2008 11:19 PM)
Edit reason: added PS

What is the theory or the mechanics of why probiotics would help with allergies?

 Quote: Lori Hall

What is the theory or the mechanics of why probiotics would help with allergies?

Not easy to synopsize.

Allergies are an immune response.

One idea is that increased use of antibiotics (and changes in cleanliness and eating as well) is wiping out the normal exposures to microbes that primed the immune system to tolerate, say, pollen.

The gut microflora of allergic humans in a Swedish study tested much lower than that of non-allergic humans.

The two suggest that we need exposure to microbes to prevent allergies..... especially early exposure, but see the U.C. Davis study below.

Atopic dermatitis in human children was lessened with probiotics in a Finnish study.

U.C. Davis followed 60 human adults for a year and found significantly lower allergy symptoms in the group that ate live-culture yogurt (as opposed to the no-yogurt and the no-live-culture-yogurt groups. The yogurt people and the researchers did not which people got which yogurt.)

Obviously, this is extremely brief and simplified, and also human-geared.

As the Huffnagle book says, it’s a fast-evolving area of research.

The results I saw in my allergic dog were from yogurt and not the capsules, I believe. I started with yogurt every day, saw an improvement, added other forms of probiotics and saw no further improvement. Now I'm using just yogurt.... but as the books say, it is so individual that it's a huge trial-and-error thing.

It also may have been that no matter what form I had started with, I had reached the level of improvement that was gonna be reached.

Ditto everything Connie said.

My short answer for people is that the problem in dogs (and humans in a similar way) is a deficient immune system, possibly due to genetics, improper development while a puppy, maybe vaccinations, and other factors. This defective version of an immune system will not properly shut off the immune response to non-threatening factors (pollens, dust, grasses, etc.) so the body's response continues unabated, giving us the symptoms we see - inflammation, itching, watery eyes, etc. Some probiotics will boost the immune system to help it function as it should and shut off it's response to non-threatening events. While there's very little research to pinpoint exactly which of the 500+ probiotic bugs will have an effect, there's no downside to adding the probiotics that don't work. It's pretty much a trial-and-error, individualized approach.

Mike

Well, I picked up some Cascade yogurt at Whole Foods today. It's funny, but Kasey never begs for our food - except dairy! We can be eating steak, cookies, anything and he doesn't care - but get out some dairy, particularly yogurt or cheese, and he flips. He is always so obedient, but you practically have to pry him off your dairy! He was soooo excited when I gave him yogurt today - his tail was going a mile a minute, he was drooling and could hardly wait to get to it. I wonder if he has instinct some how that he needs it?!

So we'll see if it makes any difference - I hope so!

 Quote: Lori Hall

Well, I picked up some Cascade yogurt at Whole Foods today. .... He was soooo excited when I gave him yogurt today - his tail was going a mile a minute, ....

See on the container how many different cultures it has?

And Nancy's has fewer types, but a couple not in Cascade.


P.S. My dogs love it too.