Hi Geoff,

Even though Will has stated his personal feeling on this, the information specialist I spoke to yesterday informed me that anxiety service dogs are not recognized by the ADA as legitimate sevice animals. Even the liberal ADA has seen fit to draw a vague line in the sand.

Being as you are disabled I can see your point of view. But even you can see the potential for abuse here. Thanks for letting us see it from your situation though.

I can just picture the Fetz dog with a cute vest on. Oops! I forgot! He doesn't have to wear one!

Howard

 Quote: will rambeau

Geoff,
Here's what I base that on - the slippery slope.

Ok, I don't like crowds, and after all those combat tours of mine I take defending myself *very* seriously. Guess I'll get Fetz declared an "assitance dog' by some well intentioned but clueless MD so I can take him *everywhere* in public.
Sounds crazy? It'd be no different than what someone using "anxiety" as a disability does.

Those people function better with their dogs in public? Well, so would I.
But I don't abuse the system like they do.

Well if bringing Fetz with you in public if needed, would allow you to function normally why would it be abuse? Like I said in my original post if Fetz behaved within the law. Not like Howard's subject at the theatre why would anybody see a problem with it?

I think we would all agree that Howard's subject at the theatre even if the guy needed a seizure alert dog. It was the dog's behaviour in the public place not the guy's unseen disability (or lack of) which was the problem.

That's the way I see it. This from ADA.GOV re: Service dogs ..

from ADA.gov
<LI type=disc>Businesses may ask if an animal is a service animal or ask what tasks the animal has been trained to perform, but cannot require special ID cards for the animal or ask about the person's disability.

<LI type=disc>People with disabilities who use service animals cannot be charged extra fees, isolated from other patrons, or treated less favorably than other patrons. However, if a business such as a hotel normally charges guests for damage that they cause, a customer with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.

<LI type=disc>A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the animal is out of control and the animal's owner does not take effective action to control it (for example, a dog that barks repeatedly during a movie) or (2) the animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others.

<LI type=disc>In these cases, the business should give the person with the disability the option to obtain goods and services without having the animal on the premises.
<LI type=disc>Businesses that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises.

A business is not required to provide care or food for a service animal or provide a special location for it to relieve itself.
<LI type=disc>Allergies and fear of animals are generally not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people with service animals.

Violators of the ADA can be required to pay money damages and penalties.

Now to open up a whole new can of worms ... Still on topic but I'm sure will generate a lot of heated discussion amongst the group.

http://www.servicedogsamerica.org/certification/index.html

Time to get Fetz his service dog cape!! LOL! I'm going to get Sasha's why not join the crowd! Though Sasha I know is well behaved in a crowd and does assist me if needed by bracing me from getting up from low chairs and the like, so why not?

Geoff I understand where you are coming from also and I have another view point on that subject. I once suffered from a very severe case of Social Anxiety Disorder thanks to some unfortunate events. When I was 12-15 I was phobic, I would have such horrible panic attacks that I would shake, lose my vision pass out from the stress. I will not get into just how bad it was but when you suffer from something like that nothing helps. A dog is a nice thing to have around but if you are bad enough to require assistance from an animal to function it cancels itself out, the dog is not enough. The dog cannot talk to people for you, the dog cannot drive for you, the dog cannot do the things that really matter when anxiety is causing problems in social situations.

They wanted to put me on all sorts of medications and for a time they did. The medications actually caused more problems and I believe exacerbated a heart condition I have. I am not on any medication today and while occassionaly I will have anxiety and stress over something silly I can control myself and today am a very outgoing outspoken social person. Thanks in no part to drugs or therapy or having a dog. The dog acts to enable a lot of problems in a person with anxiety. At times the dog being around gives a person with anxiety something else to focus on but aside from a dog being trained to find an exit from a building if a person becomes disoriented the dog does not really help someone with an anxiety disorder bad enough to cause them to really panic. People with anxiety disorders that bad need assistance from a human.

This is just my take on it. I am someone that fixed themself and know it can be done and from that outlook and viewpoint a dog is only enabling the anxiety and does nothing that a family member or friend could not do better.

I hope I have not overstepped my bounds here but in regards to service animals I feel that people really abuse the system. I have a condition that entitles me to a service dog and is legit but I still don't feel 100% comfortable using that right because 99% of my life I can function properly without any assistance from a dog and so a vast majority of the time I work my life around my symptoms and on a bad day rather than take the dog out with me shopping I just go the next day. (I have a heart condition)

Anywho, just my whole savings jar worth of opinions lol. Mods edit me if I'm out of line

Are you going to put out the extra 10 bucks for the "ask to pet me, I'm friendly patch" LOL.

http://www.servicedogsamerica.org/certification/index.html

And anyone reading that link can see what the major problem is - all someone has to do is to "check off" that their dog can fulfill those requirements ( but there's *NO* proof required!! ) and pay a fee.
Total, 100% BS.

Edit to add:
A strong, mandatory certification for dogs used in an assitance mode to include advanced obedience and public socialization training ( with *testing* of these ) would go a long way to weeding out the "scammers" that abuse this situation.
It puzzles me why these common sense requirements aren't in place already.....

What about an assistance animal for, say, a child with Autism?

The dog wouldn't necessarily need to do any special task like picking up objects since the parents could do that. But I have seen a news story where the presence of the dog did allow the child to experience reduced anxiety and greater functionality, and in some cases initiate conversation/speech. He was calmer, able to learn better and had less reactivity with his dog present.

This is the kind of thing I was picturing Greg posting about. Not an anxiety assistance dog where anxiety is the only/primary affliction, but maybe where it is secondary to another illness like Autism or Tourette's, for example.

In that case I think the use of a dog would be justified.

Regarding the OP, were charges (for having an aggressive animal at large) ever pressed against the owner? Hope so.

Angella a child with Autism is very different from a "normal" (not intending to me offensive here, just a term) person with "normal" anxiety. Autism is a whole nuther ballgame.

Angela,
I'd be up in the air about a dog used for a child with autism being allowed public access- I read news articles about the disruption that some autistic children cause in situations like school and church, and it seems that in the effort to give the autistic child a better life, we decrease the quality of life of the people whose learning or worship is disrupted by the situation.
And adding a dog to that type of situation in public?

"SDA recognizes that every person in America may have some form of disability. "

Wow. that kind of leaves it open for abuse, doesn't it?

 Quote: megan berry

"SDA recognizes that every person in America may have some form of disability. "

Wow. that kind of leaves it open for abuse, doesn't it?

Well, since the SDA makes money on this, it makes sense for them from a financial standpoint.


Lord, whatever happened to *ethics*?