Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: randy allen ]
#201697 - 07/14/2008 10:52 AM |
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Take a break from training this dog for awhile.
Your trainer has helped you to put a big nasty dent in the trust and faith your dog has in you as a pack leader.
It is NOT your fault. There are millions of crappy and even criminal trainers out there- and you met one. If you haven't already given this trainer the heave-ho, please do. For your dog's sanity. This trainer is a moron.
Your dog has it's entire life to learn OB. Right now, he needs to learn that you are worthy of his trust and respect. Take a break from all training for a week or so.
Take him for nice walks, toss a ball around, groom him every single night. Don't give him commands unless absolutely needed for safety.
Give the dog time to see you as something other than a heavy handed taskmaster. Let him see you as fun, kind, fair and worthy of trust and respect.
After a week of this, begin easing slowly into 5 minute OB sessions, with high value treats, zero compulsion, and always ending on a high note.
A dog that won't accept a treat for performing a command, is telling you that he values being left alone by you, more than the treat.
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#201701 - 07/14/2008 11:24 AM |
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Randy, how do you adapt your activities with your dog when winter shows up ? My JRT is really "cold shy". But I guess he could enjoy it more if I gave him something more interesting to do than a simple walk.
Not Randy, so take this FWIW. Mine doesn't really care for cold either. I still go for our normal walks and outside play. He gets over it. Cold weather also gets rid of ticks and chiggers and makes it a good time to run through the woods. Get some new smells and sights in.
On summer, I take him to the local soccer court where I put him on a 40ft line and let him run/smell, and toss toys around. He does seem to have the time of his life. I just wish I could train him to bring the stuff back. He much prefers to play keep away.
Throw one toy, and present another. More than likely he'll want what you've got. It may take some time before he brings the toy he had all the way back to you, but eventually he'll figure out the game. I always made sure to throw one normal toy and keep his highest value toy for the trade off. Then do it again.
Someone probably has a quicker way to get a dog to retrieve, though. At the least, the way I described teaches him a new game. He won't even know he learned anything.
Do you have suggestion for weather-specific activities ?
Just do what you normally do, but with a jacket on. Sorry.
Take advantage of all the biting insects being dormant. Surely a terrier can find something interesting out in a new patch of woods.
Also, is there any way I can make him enjoy swimming ? He panics when I (gently) put him in the swimming pool, and fights like a devil in blessed water to reach the pool's sides and get the hell out.
Some people, think I saw Cesar Milan do it too, just walk the dog straight into the pool with a leash.
We did it another way. It still took a while for me, but I got my dog so freakin' worked up to play with a ball or frisbee that he couldn't help but to get in and enjoy it. Now you can't keep him out of the water. That may be a little vague, but I don't know of a formula for making a dog like anything.
Thats also a rough example of using your dogs drive to accomplish something rather than trying to suppress its drive.
Somebody recently said something that made a lot of sense. How can I make my dog believe he wants to do what it is that I want him to do?
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#201708 - 07/14/2008 12:02 PM |
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#201716 - 07/14/2008 12:49 PM |
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Thanks everyone for the pool tips. My pool is off-ground, but I do have a deck to access it. I'll see if I can get my hands on a ramp.
A dog that won't accept a treat for performing a command, is telling you that he values being left alone by you, more than the treat.
If he could speak he would probably've said:
"Dude, you can put that snack where the sun don't shine. I mean, seriously... CAN'T YOU SEE THERE'S A DOG OUT THERE?!"
When I go for our walk tonight I'll bring his favourite toy and tease him with it when he gets distracted. He has a tremendous prey drive.
If I could redirect his nervousness to the toy, it would go a long way. I want him to think "Screw that dog! I got that FANTASTIC BALL-ON-STRING right here !"
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#201718 - 07/14/2008 01:04 PM |
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If I could redirect his nervousness to the toy, it would go a long way. I want him to think "Screw that dog! I got that FANTASTIC BALL-ON-STRING right here !"
If you could develop a strong bond, the dog would think, "Screw that dog! Dad's right here!"
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#201722 - 07/14/2008 01:46 PM |
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It takes time Francis, patience.
So you have the closed areas scoped out? The places you can let your dog run free? The ball parks. The tennis courts. The two ball game is a good exercise to start with. And from the JR's I've met, you're going to develope a good throwing arm. lol
Winter? How to cope? One just does. Of course it depends on if it's a balmy 15 degrees F or a cool 0 degrees F with a quartering 12 mile an hour breeze. One day I'll don my insulated cover alls and one day I won't. (I'll leave to you to figure the days out) The snow isn't really that problematic, if I get bored with the snowmobile trails, we can do some snowshoeing threw some virgin territory, or get on the cross country skis for a real work out. The important thing is to get the dog out, I mean no body in their right mind WANTS to go out and play/work with the dog when it's 5 degrees with a 8 mph wind but we all do.....because it's important for our charges and their continued developement.
If you're worried about the dog and the cold, they make jackets for the short haired dogs of the world. I know when my hunting buddies discovered that they could extent the working life of their retrievers with a jacket had no compunction about using them. (sea ducks in Jan. among the ice floes) Any ways the dog will adapt with the weather.
To my ever lasting shame I once forced a dog to learn to swim.... a long time ago. There was not then nor is there now any need for it. Take a high value resource and just put it in the water so all he needs is to get a paw wet to get it, and work the resource out small (it'll seem forever) steps at a time. He'll learn to deal with swimming for it in the end. If it hasn't worked by now, forcing the dog to swim only works against with where you want to be with your dog.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: randy allen ]
#201800 - 07/15/2008 11:50 AM |
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Updates:
Hard to get his attention on our walk last night. Even his ball-on-rope which usually drives him crazy was ineffective.
I know some people suggested to avoid corrections for a while. But I had no choice but to correct him on our walk... He got in front of me a couple of times, and he pulled his "jumping/barking torpedo" move at the sight of a dog. After the dog correction, he stopped his behavior but remained alert for a couple minutes.
Treats then started to somewhat work until we saw another dog. He didn't charge this time, but I corrected him right as he stared at him. I had to wait for his drive to settle down a little for treats to work again, but he ate them in haste, not even looking at me.
Thus, so far, walks are a discipline fest, while I train/play with him in my backyard. By training/play, I mean I have him sit/down/bark before I toss his ball.
Motivational training can't really work on our walk at this moment. He's too nervous/tense to eat treats or play with his toy. He machinally complies to all of my commands, but won't keep his eyes out of the thing that monopolizes his attention. It can be an animal, people walking in front of us, or the guy working on his driveway. All of these things have more value than a treat or his favourite prey toy.
As soon as I got back home after my walk, we went to my backyard and played fetch with his toy/treats. We did have a blast!
I read that walks are essential to build up bonds, but I don't feel like I'm getting any benefit from this since I can't get his attention as soon as we get in the frontyard.
Walks are clearly a source of stress. Should I put a pause on them for a couple weeks, and focus more on working/exercising/playing with him at home where he seemingly feels more comfortable ? This could minimize situations in which I have to correct him, make him realize how fun his toy, treats, -and owner- can be, and help building a more solid bond until he's "ready" for the outside world? This would go along with Alyssa's suggestion, I think.
Or should I keep the walks, allowing him to go "non-heel" while only correcting bad behaviors (like pulling/jumping/barking) ? Maybe I just need to let him "be a dog" more, in order to better socialize with the outside world? But if I let him do his way, he'll sniff, piss(mark), and all other things that have nothing to do with having a good time with me. For example, he seldom minds me on recalls (unless I pop the leash) when he's in this state.
I also fear he'll figure HE is taking me for a walk if I allow him more freedom. When I don't have him on heel, he minds his own business and doesn't care about me at all. Also, even when he doesn't pull, he is ALWAYS way in front of me. I've been told to never allow him to do this because of dominance issues... but I've been told so much crap that I'm not sure what is right or wrong. As I'm writing this, I realize this could be the very problem of why he's stressed on walks, since they've never really been a pleasant experience for him. That said, he looks forward to them as soon as I bring the collar out.
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#201803 - 07/15/2008 12:36 PM |
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Is there a less distracting time or place that you could be walking him at?
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Francis Daigle ]
#201804 - 07/15/2008 12:38 PM |
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I think that there are two things addressed here.
Have you taught "heel" -- not necessarily formal, but walking by your side with a slack leash -- without the distractions of the sidewalk? That is, in your back yard, or indoors, or somewhere else where people and dogs are not plentiful.
And on walks (which I agree are important), how fast are you walking? What happens with another dog? By "torpedo," do you mean excited interest or snarling aggression?
Do you allow frequent "free" or "okay" periods on the walk, so that his free sniff-and-be-a-dog times are plentiful but are at your discretion, not his? Do you choose venues where you are relatively distraction-free for his free times?
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Re: I failed... what can I do ?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#201805 - 07/15/2008 12:39 PM |
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Is there a less distracting time or place that you could be walking him at?
And that.
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