I live right outside of Phoenix and all of my family carries weapons. My brother is a federal marshall and carries 24/7, my cousins and sisters and dad all have concealed weapons permits, you would never guess my 105lb beautiful, sweet 22 year old cousin has a gun in her purse. We're still the wild west out here. But on the downside, there are stories on the news quite often of people being shot during road rage episodes....

I just believe in the saying, if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns..

But there are other reasons people in Phx are nice, we love it here!

 Quote: vanessa dibernar

But on the downside, there are stories on the news quite often of people being shot during road rage episodes....

Statistically "legally" armed citizens are less likely to be involved in incidents such as road rage and the sort. When they catch the shooters I`ll bet they are not legally carrying weapons.

yup!

Randy:

It seems I misunderstood your position. My apologies for that.

I suspect you have a point, though, to the best of my knowledge, it hasn't been proven anywhere.

I read once about four scenarios with regards to firearm control:

1. No license needed at all. If you can buy it, you can carry it. Vermont and Alaska are the only two I know that have this position. Admittedly, I'm not always current on the news, but I don't recall reading of the streets of Bennington awash in rivers of blood.

2. No license given at all (cf., Washington, DC.) Some of the worst crimes rates anywhere.

3. "May Issue." Generally a scam, whereby only select people get permits. Those with connections and money, usually.

4. "Shall Issue." Probably the best of the four, realistically. Unless there is an overpowering reason to NOT issue a license to carry (convicted felon, etc.), one is issued.

That, to my simple brain, seems about right.

Pennsylvania is an open carry state. If you can legally own a weapon you can carry it openly with no license. The exception is with in the Philadelphia city limits and in a motor vehicle. To conceal you need a LTCF (license to carry a firearm) We are a shall issue state so unless you have a felony or history of mental illness they will issue a license.
It`s good to live in a free state.

randy, i suspect it might go up a slight bit but when i was in CO. prong horn hunting a few weeks back i ask a local officer the exact same questiong and he said he has only been on one self defence shooting. most have been murders from people who did not have a ccw permit.(go figure).

<shrug> I've got no problem with sane people owning or carrying guns Jeff. Personally, I have found them a very useful tool in my life. And still own more than one.

Thinking on the issue rationally though, I keep coming up with the same answer. IF I were a scum of the earth preying on the helpless and weak in the world, it becomes a case of diminishing returns for me to even chance life and limb to front someone up. It's just easier to finish it before it even has a chance to start.
In the mean while, the rest of us walk on pins and needles wondering if some fender bender or perceived slight is going to cost us our life. Because every one is armed. Every one is scared that not acting first means becoming 97 cents worth of dirt.
As a whole, it just seems civil society loses when the answer is always at the busness end of a gun.

Randy

http://www.profire.us/sheepdogs.html

Randy,

All speculation aside, I've played with numbers myself straight from the USDOJ. They are very rough since I've had to use respective stats from the late 90s through 2002.

Aside from inner-city drug-gang violence, our rate of homicide is comparable to Europe. We're talking about under 5 homicides per 100,000...that includes non-gun homicides. It is the tiny geographic/demographic anomolies which constitute the VAST majority of deaths.

Think about that while you consider that not only are guns here reasonably cheap-and-easy, but 48 states have concealed carry priviledges.

Speculation is not neccesary. There are facts, and they support that conclusion, that at the very WORST, gun ownership as we know it does no net statistical harm and that the PEOPLE you would expect to *be* problem, *are* the problem. Arguments to the contrary neccesarily require mentioning specific tragic examples of accidents, negligence, and criminal behavior devoid of the greater context of over-all trends.

Personally, I'm not even suggesting that the trend towards concealed carry has caused a drop in violent crime, but factually speaking, violent crime has been on a decade-by-decade downswing, perhaps irrespective of states gradually adopting CC since 1986.

Heck, I'm not even saying CC would make Boston drivers more polite. I doubt it would. But they're not killing eachother left-and-right either, and I doubt guns would change that basic behavior.

I can't say I understand when people speak as if gun ownership and carrying in public is some sort of hypothetical situation. It's already here, and things are fine.

It seemed like before each state adopted it's respective carry laws, there were always the people who freaked out about "wild west" scenarios.

It's just not happening.

Well Steve, very nice post.
But I don't know why you wrote it. No where have I suggested that guns should be taken away from law biding citizens, nor have I hinted at not allowing those that need or want the privilege of carry permits to have them.

Parsing the stats, you've found that the overwhelming majority of America is quite safe and law biding. All fine and good. However I believe I was addressing the specific issue of the high crime areas.
And further, I was merely questioning the wisdom of thinking more guns on the street, legal or not, would do anything to alleviate the crime rates in those locales. But I'll stick by my original thought; I don't believe the dregs of the earth are going to go away and find honest work through some enlightened self interest in not getting shot by some hard working joe or frail old lady at the atm.

Honestly Steve I don't know how you found any anti gun innuendos in my ramblings. I do think though that arming all drivers in Boston would make for an interesting social experiment!

Randy