If it was my dog i'd be the one approaching him to let him out. Want to borrow my suit? JK!

 Quote: Sarah Morris

Holy frickin Christ...

If you have to have a shotgun ready to manage this situation and this dog then you have NO business doing what you're doing. NONE. NADA. This is not experienced dog handling...it's BS. I've never seen anything like this...EVER...on this forum.

Do this dog a favor and return him to the seller ASAP. You do not have the experience to own a dog like this.

And on that note (and I agree), I'm closing this. Ed can open it if he wants to comment.

I opened this thread because there are some points that need to be made here.

1- Jason - I am sorry to tell you this but you got screwed by the vendor who sold you this dog. If you want some advice, have a lawyer talk to the guy . Give the dog back

2- Baed on what I have read in this thread the dog is beyond your training skill level.

3- Under no circomstances did I or would I every recommend the methods you describe on a dog that I had only owned for 5 days.

4-What you are doing and proposing to do are only going to make things worse - a lot worse.

5- Contrary to what you have been told, a dog with these issues is not a candidate for a police service dog.

6- You say that your friend is not a stranger to this dog. Let me tell you something, having only had this dog for 5 days - "YOU are a stranger to this dog".

7- Lindsey - you mention in a post that Jason should talk to me because my old police dog Otis was handler aggressive. I will comment here that Otis was an extreme dog, but he was also a fair dog. He was nothing like this dog in any way.

8- It is obvious from your posts that you don't understand pack structure. You have not either read or watched the dvd r article I have written on pack strucutre. Dogs like this take weeks if not months to develop a relationship with - not 5 DAM DAYS !!!

So you may not like hearing all this but you have a problem and your part of it.

 Quote: ed frawley

3- Under no circomstances did I or would I every recommend the methods you describe on a dog that I had only owned for 5 days.

I have a question, Ed. I have heard of these methods used as last resorts in several cases by pretty experienced handlers. Are you saying you would NEVER recommend/resort to this or just saying that it is too soon? Just to be clear...

My instant reaction was that while I have heard of the occasional dog being "convinced" in this way that he is not the boss (and again, these were extreme dogs...one in a thousand) that the OP has only had the dog a few days, and a correction of this magnitude by a stranger (him) is not only unfair, IMO, but going to possibly make the situation worse if not handled properly from here on out.

Just curious; I have never had a dog this bad, but I have had one that I think would've been that way if rehomed as an adult.

 Quote: Jason S Campbell

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

Jason,If most of the problems are when he has no leash on ... don't take the leash off.

Keep him on a leash you say? I would so do that if it wasn't for the fact he chews them all up into pieces. I put him on a $45 Ray Allen 6' RAM Police Lead and he had that chewed up the next morning. So to cut back on leashes being destroyed, i have stopped leashing him while in the crate. It doesnt get me anywhere except for buying another leash So like i stated i use the fishing method with a coat hanger to snag his leash while my friend distracts him with a piece of hot dog wiener. It works really well and is very effective and safe. Providing there is a choke chain already on the dog.

Whats wrong with a chain leash...if you can't find one, make one!

I will not comment any further on this matter. Thankyou all for your advice/criticism. Let's all hope this works out for the best. Thankyou Ed for re-opening this post. Your advice is greatly appreciated.

Jason

Okay Jason, sign off if you want to.
Try looking at it this way though. Something in this dogs past has brought him to this point of elevated aggression. That you have a damaged dog is beside the point I guess.
Are you going to continue to carry on with what he expects from the human species?
Or are you going to give it some time and thought to work it out? Do you want a partner or a broken spirit?

It took two years to get the dog to where he is now, it'll take some time and effort gain his trust and balance him out.
Don't fail him.

Really five whole days! How long do you think it'd take YOU to assimilate if dropped into the unknown?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

We do hope that you stay around.

Even the best of trainers are continually perfecting their craft.

FWIW, I will say that few people have ever dealt with a dog like this, and it is daunting. You cannot automatically blame someone in the dog's past, nor can you simply throw stones at the person trying to "fix" the dog now. Few know, honestly, what they'd do in the same situation. How many of you have dealt with a dog that aggressive? I think Jason was brave to admit to everything going on with the dog, and he fully admitted he was in over his head. Let's give the newbie a break.

For those of you who were shocked by the methods described...they are used more than you know...and while we may not agree with them, many "old timers" who have dealt with dogs who will literally kill you will say that it's the only way. I have heard of this TWICE just this last week, once from someone very well respected who has been on the world team several times for Sch. There are dogs like this out there, and it's either nip it in the bud or PTS most times.

Jason was doing what he saw as the only thing he could do with a very difficult dog that most people would rehome to some unsuspecting person or just euthanize. I give someone credit for committing to a dog like this. While I would've tried to build a bond w/the dog, I wasn't there, and I can't judge someone who was. I have had one situation like this where I had to be very physical with a dog to prevent it from doing great harm, and when it happens to you you realize how hard it is to always know the perfect way to handle it when it comes up.

I do disagree w/setting the dog up b/c I think it's counter productive to trust, but if the dog is that dangerous, he may need extreme measures to be handled. This kind of thing is so hard to talk about online b/c so few people have seen a dog like this and it sounds absolutely horrible. I'm not saying it's good; I'm just saying that I never say never about any method and desperate times call for desperate measures. I just think we are sometimes too quick to judge someone in an unenviable position, as I believe Jason to be in right now.

Oh, and was I the only one who took the shotgun comment as sarcasm? I don't think there was really a shotgun...

How many of you have dealt with a dog that aggressive?

I have. Well, not quite that bad.

While I would've tried to build a bond w/the dog, I wasn't there, and I can't judge someone who was. I have had one situation like this where I had to be very physical with a dog to prevent it from doing great harm, and when it happens to you you realize how hard it is to always know the perfect way to handle it when it comes up.

Jason was doing what he saw as the only thing he could do ....

The O.P. asked for and received advice and suggestions and ignored them. The route he chose instead was a disastrous choice, IMHO.

I don't think there was really a shotgun...

I did.

I'm with everyone who thinks that the O.P. should stick around. It would be pretty hard to read articles, listen to podcasts, and view LB videos without coming out of it a much better trainer/handler. Again JMHO.

I felt sorry for the dog who had been in the home for 5 days. That doesn't mean that I don't think it's possible to turn it around.