As far as picking a pup. Here is a list of "breeds" that are often "black listed" Akitas, boxers, chow chows, Doberman pinschers, pit bulls, American Staffordshire bull terriers, rottweilers ,Presa Canarios, rottweilers, wolf hybrids, huskies, Dalmatians, Airedales, and Great Danes.

From your posts it looks like you want a larger type dog, a lab might be a good choice because there are so many of them that it is unlikely they will be "black listed". Or you can go the other route and get a rarer breed large dog that probably won't draw negative attention unless there is a movie of the week or Oprah special.
In that case you might consider something like a Thai Ridgeback


I think key things are to look for a dog that was bred for a lifestyle that fits yours. Once you have done that, then the key is picking the right pup out of the litter. The right breed, but the wrong pup can still spell problems. I think there is info somewhere on this site that will tell you what behaviors to look for in a potential pup. That is skill that deserves lots of study. Again, for what you seem to want, some of the rarer breeds may fit what you are looking for in a pup.

T.M.-

 Quote:

I am surprised that there is such a strong feeling against the piddle pads, I take you all must have had some bad experiences.

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My response:
??? Excuse me,??? WTF, why can you not comprehend that the reason we are all saying that is because it has uniformly caused GOOD experiences.

Gina, the training articles Ed has here on his site sum it up quite nicely. Very simple.
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T.M-

 Quote:

I like it for the following reasons.
1. The young pup spends less time caged up.
2. If you crate train them to young you risk a chance of teaching them to go in their bedding.
3. It is a good opportunity to start them Targeting

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My reponse:
1. The denning instinct in invoked here..."caged up" is a very inflammatory and misleading term.
2. Are you for real??? Proper crating "teaches" no such thing!!!!!
3. As for this, I really can't comment, because I have no idea what the heck you are talking about ....whatever it is, it can't possibly have a thing to do with housebreaking a pup...sheesh!

I have a question about having your dog crate train or crating them...
How long should the dog be in the crate???
Cause it seem to me that the average person is away from home for like 9 hours cause of work and traveling to and from work....
That to me is like way to long for a animal to be in... to me even an hour seem to long but this is not a problem that i have just a question that came to mind...I have never crated one of my dogs and dont even own a crate but then i guess under my situations...there really wouldnt be a need to have them in a crate....since my home is their den and i am with them 24/7....my experience with my new fellow was he had to go out to do his business like every 2 hours...as time went on of course the time also increased..finally between 6 and 8 months he can
finally wait untill morning ...ah a full 8 hours of sleep.....

Thomas,

I agree with the crate people. Like John DeKruyff alluded to, by teaching the pup to use pads you are basically teaching the dog that it is OK to releive itself in the house.

Aside from that, there are so many other benefits to crate training that it is well worth the effort.

I would be interested to here from those of you who have jobs and/or a lifestyle that required your puppy to be in their crate for extended periods of time. I am in that situation now and would be very grateful for any tips that made your crate training successful. JR

Jeannette,

the reason I am a bit surprised is that I have great success with the pad method and I am surprised that so many people here have had problems with it. I wonder how many people have actually tried both methods?

As far as the term "caged" being inflammatory, its only inflammatory if you feel guilty about something, and I will tell you flat out that if you are PROPERLY crate training your dog you do NOT need to feel guilty about keeping the pup caged. The other thing I will flat out tell you is that I will NOT use "politically correct" terms just make people feel better about what they are doing. Now the reason I don't like to keep my pups "caged" with crate training is because it takes away from the time that I can be interacting with them.

I am also surprised, that the word "targeting" appears to be a foreign word to some. Targeting has to do with the valid concerns others have mentioned about the dog "learning to go in the house". It is the difference between learning to go in the house and learning to go on the pad.

I think there is something about crate training that I don't think I seen mentioned in the other responses...and again I'm a newb so I could be totally off-base with this.

But besides for crate training aiding in house-training, and also serving as a safe place for the dog to sleep/relax/DEN, I thought the crate served a larger purpose at the same time.

In Ed's article for groundwork, he talks about controlling every aspect of the puppies life. By putting it in the crate, whether it likes the crate or not, you show the dog that you are in control. When he comes out of the crate he is on leash 100% of the time, so you control where he goes, what he does etc.

I have to say that this has helped me ENORMOUSLY with my puppy. Initially I let my puppy run free in my house and he went into the crate at night. I let him run around outside with my kids and I put him in a bunch of situations that were not good for the puppy.

I was a dumbass and I emailed Ed..he pointed me to the groundwork article--I applied what he said and I have seen a drastic change in my puppies attitude toward me, my family and working.

I have my Mal in a crate while I am at work. I was lucky in that he has never had an accident in the house. I am pretty restrictive of where he was allowed in the house. When I first got him I took him out every hour or so when I was home, after he was fed, after he drank water, etc...
I would crate him at 11, get up at 3 and let him out, and then at 5 am. Then we would go on a walk, feed him, play until about 6:45. Then back in the crate until I got home from work.
I still keep up a schedule with him, though it isnt waking up at night. If I dont get him out at 5am he reminds me. Get in a routine

When i 1st got a pup i knew nothing about crates etc - but you live and learn. we kept him in the kitchen in the day time while i was at work, I tried using pads with little success - my pup at the time would just tear them up and go were ever the hell he pleased, after tearing up the pads he would then move on to the floor, wall paper etc.
So I looked into and bought a cage (crate) when we were at work or out of the house he would go in here. Though for work i would always get back for luch to let him out. This immediatley ended any 'mistakes' when we werent there. When we were in the house we would just keep a careful eye and make sure he went out at least every 1/2 hour to an hour.
For night times we would just limit his water early evening, then crate him for the night. He got house trained real quick. For me this was the safest and quickest method. Its all about paying attention to your dog. Simple

Ken, that is right on the money.
I address that side of the issue with a portable "kennel". The dog has a piddle pad and a seperate sleeping area. My method is not a stringent as the crate method. But it also gives me gives me training flexability in other areas.
I choose what works best for best for my situation. Thats one of the reasons I am not negative towards crate training, it works, and goodness knows the clean up is easier. In contrast if I was as blindly devoted to the piddle pad as some appear to be to the crate, I would just pee all over the crate method