Sarah Ward wrote 02/07/2009 09:23 PM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: John Tepe ] #226808 - 02/07/2009 09:23 PM
Sarah Ward Webboard User Reg: 06-12-2005 Posts: 227 Loc: Colorado Offline	John, Is all the basic OB that he learned in the classes and with the trainer still in place? Does he still obey all the on/off leash commands he knows? Do you practice this stuff to keep him current? Is the lunging and barking at strangers etc. when you are out walking a new behavior? Or something that he has always done and that you've never gotten on top of? I agree with some of the other posts that revisiting basic OB would be helpful, but to me this doesn't sound like an untrained dog that needs to be started from zero. You have something already there to build on, but this specific lunging/barking, chasing behavior on walks is what you want to extinguish right now. Training to exploit that prey drive in other ways would be a separate exercise for the future. Or am I missing something?
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Aaron Myracle wrote 02/07/2009 10:16 PM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: Sarah Ward ] #226812 - 02/07/2009 10:16 PM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	I am only introducing the possibility of prey, because of this statement:  Quote: John Tepe When he is not on leash, he chases after the person,dog or truck, etc. as soon as he sees it. I also haven't heard any mention of hackling, growling or other behavior. Just pulling and barking. Unfortunately, I cannot personally observe this dog (unless John is willing to videotape this behavior for us). I can only make assumptions based on John's description, which is filtered by his own perception and understanding of dog behavior. If the dog is behaving this way out of prey drive, teaching him to focus his drive on an appropriate item, along with a proper collar and proper leash training, would curb this behavior. If it's fear-based aggression, or another form of aggression, teaching focus, and reinforcing the heeling and OB through refresher training and proper corrections will also create improvement. Ultimately, I think John needs to bring in a professional trainer.
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randy allen wrote 02/08/2009 06:03 AM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #226828 - 02/08/2009 06:03 AM
randy allen Webboard User Reg: 08-30-2007 Posts: 3283 Loc: Offline	I suspect that Ed's advice on the use of a dd collar on the dog was more about using it as aback up in case the pinch collar separated. It's the same advice he gives to anyone when using a pinch. John, I'm confused has the dog been through several 10 week training sessions or several classes of a 10 week session. What did the private trainer say about the issues? And how did he suggest they be addressed? How is the dog's ob in the back yard? Have you tried refocusing with food? I personally have zero issues with the use of pinch, electronic, or dd collars when used properly. I just feel like there's some basic fundamental piece missing here. If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong. Randy PS. Yeah, if the collar is sliding down the neck, take a link out of it. you want that collar standing proud on a smooth coated dog like a lab. Hmmmm, you are using the live ring, aren't you?
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randy allen wrote 02/08/2009 06:29 AM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: randy allen ] #226829 - 02/08/2009 06:29 AM
randy allen Webboard User Reg: 08-30-2007 Posts: 3283 Loc: Offline	Anonther question John, You say you run with him. Do you have the same problems when running? Have you read about the focus in drive work? If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong. Randy
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William Somers wrote 02/08/2009 09:36 AM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: randy allen ] #226832 - 02/08/2009 09:36 AM
William Somers Webboard User Reg: 01-25-2009 Posts: 2 Loc: Offline	Some good advise has been given here I would make sure the prong is fitted properley, sometimes it may mean going to a different gauge of link to get the proper fit. I have only ever seen one dog who would give zero warning signs before lunging and turning on, most dogs will give you an indicator as they are going into drive. You need to stop the chain reaction when it's just starting, if you let the dog go into full drive the correction is going to have to be a lot harsher to be effective. I would be correcting for starting to go into drive without permission. So watch what the bugger does closely when there is a chance of the lunging ect. He will show you a sign, if not you need someone who can read the dog a little better than yourself to give you a hand.
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John Tepe wrote 02/08/2009 10:20 AM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: John Tepe ] #226834 - 02/08/2009 10:20 AM
John Tepe Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2005 Posts: 10 Loc: Offline	I have read and watched the material you suggested above. I will order the videos. My dog is very easy to train using this method. As a matter of fact the private trainer we used had worked for sea world and was very familiar with this method. I hope the video deals with handling the dog when he is over stimulated since that is the only time I have a problem. Over Christmas he performed many difficult tricks in front of a house full of unfamiliar people and had no problem using this method. It is when the stimulation is greater than his desire for a treat that I have a problem. I guess I have to find different levels of distractions and gradually work up. I think doing the work outdoors versus inside will also help.
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John Tepe wrote 02/08/2009 01:55 PM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: John Tepe ] #226855 - 02/08/2009 01:55 PM
John Tepe Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2005 Posts: 10 Loc: Offline	In answer to questions: 1. No growling just barking pulling. 2. All basic commands still in place and practiced often. 3. Longing and barking at strangers is not new behavior. 4. Dog definitely needs to be taught to focus when under stress. 5. I have the same problem when running as I do on walk. 6. Ed suggested using bark collar in combination with dominant dog collar. Did not mention prong. Also Recommended dominant dog video. Today on walk I noticed a dog a block away. I watched carefully to see how my dog would react when he first saw the dog. Immediately his tail began wagging and he was hyper. When the dog was about 50 feet away he went up on hind legs and barked like crazy. Throughout I tried to calm him down. I turned and began walking away from the other dog. He contined to pull and look back until the dog was out of site.
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Aaron Myracle wrote 02/09/2009 10:03 AM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: John Tepe ] #226919 - 02/09/2009 10:03 AM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	If he knows "sit", just have him sit. Problem solved.
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John Tepe wrote 02/15/2009 08:02 PM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #227778 - 02/15/2009 08:02 PM
John Tepe Webboard User Reg: 09-06-2005 Posts: 10 Loc: Offline	Randy, Steve, Sarah or William, If the prong collar is too tight can it cause damage. In order to keep the collar from falling down I took out a prong. It is now tight all the time. Thanks, John
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Connie Sutherland wrote 02/15/2009 08:11 PM Re: Bark collar or remote collar [Re: John Tepe ] #227780 - 02/15/2009 08:11 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: John Tepe Randy, Steve, Sarah or William, If the prong collar is too tight can it cause damage. In order to keep the collar from falling down I took out a prong. It is now tight all the time. Thanks, John http://leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm
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