All 3 of my dogs are pets. None of them will be used for breeding, all are purebred, not all of them have papers. People that breed dogs for pets is fine by me. Same goes with breeders of working dogs.

My GSD is AKC registered. Natan is one of her great grandsires. But the breeder we got her from used to show GSD's before she had an accident and became handicapped. My GSD's mothers lines (far back) have working titled GSD's, but the closer to her, there are show titles.

I have nothing against showing dogs. I believe that many people have deviated from the GSD breed standards originally set up by Max. It is sad to see. I hate watching the show GSD's trotting with their butt so low to the ground (they were bred to have low sitting butts/hips) and I think it's crap. I'd like to see someone bring in a working GSD-any level SchH, a PPD and try to win. That would be something to see!

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

I wouldn't drop 3 grand on any pup, I don't care who the sire and dam were, let alone who was in the line 6 generations ago.

Puppies are a crapshoot, period. You can stack the deck a little in your favor with proven lines, but in the end, you're still taking a gamble with a puppy.

An older dog, perhaps. 3 grand for non-working lines? No way.

I wouldn't pay $200 for a dog from someone breeding well outside the breed standard.
I'm sorry, but I can't commend someone that is hurting the breed.

I agree. I paid a meer $400 for my GSD.

Watch the BBC documentary "Pedigree Dogs Exposed", and tell me that you don't cringe when you watch those GSDs wobble around.

Tell me you don't choke up watching the beautiful Boxer seizing and crying out.

Tell me it doesn't make you sick seeing all those King Charles Spaniels with severe, painful and even deadly neurological defects...

Pugs, bulldogs and pekinese that cannot even breath correctly and must have nasal surgery to correct severe defects- and these dogs are not only permitted to breed, but hailed as "correct" by the breeders.


ALL as a result of someone breeding to their own "goal".

 Quote: alyssa myracle

Pugs, bulldogs and pekinese that cannot even breath correctly and must have nasal surgery to correct severe defects- and these dogs are not only permitted to breed, but hailed as "correct" by the breeders.

I mostly agree. Bulldogs shouldn't even exist, IMO. They cannot reproduce naturally, and they have pathetically short lives filled w/health miseries. I don't know much about Pugs, but I do know a bit about Pekingese, and they can breathe just fine, and run and play, and live well into their teens-even late teens(unlike the Bulldogs).

Of course, I have no experience w/poorly bred Pekes. Mine have been from absolute top lines. My male was from the same kennel as the Westminster-winning Peke a few years back. His breeder has said to me on several occasions that it infuriates her when they don't make the Peke's run. She always prided herself on the fact that "my Peke's can walk as far as a Great Dane." She felt that judges were, in effect, encouraging improperly bred Pekes by changing the rules to accomodate dogs who couldn't run and breathe. It's a slippery slope.


It's really about individual idiot breeders allowing poor health. You can have a dog meet a standard and still function as a dog.

Matti: note how her eyes do not bulge out of their sockets, although her face is perfectly flat.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Matti/Matti10-19-08021.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Matti/pekepup.jpg

In rescues, you often see one-eyed Peke's b/c their eyes pop out. Yuck.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Matti/9-7-08mattiindyjoetot028.jpg
Oh, and she can run, too. LOL.

The most recent Best-in-Show Peke from Crufts, had to have sinus surgery to resect the soft-palate.

She's a cute little girl, but I've gotta ask one question. Is she a serious Peke?

Which dog? What year? 2003? Did they ever actually confirm that?
Not that I doubt it...

I wasn't talking about other countries; I was talking about us. We have enough problems w/out looking out of the country for more, LOL.

I am very curious as to whether or not the assertion of the documentarians in Pedigree Dogs Exposed will come true; that show-line dogs are heading towards serility due to the extent of in-breeding.

 Quote: steve strom

She's a cute little girl, but I've gotta ask one question. Is she a serious Peke?

Steve, you are lucky you are so far away. She is as serious as they come! LOL.

Actually, no. She's not serious at all. Look at her face. If I had a ton of time on my hands, I'd Sch. title her just for fun. I know of a guy who titled his Yorkie. She is a sport dog through and through. She loves to tug, drag her prizes all over the house proudly...and has super high prey drive. She is the worst dog I have w/the birds and cats. But luckily, her grip is lacking due to physiology, so little harm is done when she catches them. Both she and my male have been uber-healthy...but I probably tend to choose "above average" breeders.

In fact, neither breeder breeds for pets at all. They do place dogs who cannot be bred or shown, but they absolutely never have puppies for sale. If you want one, you wait for one w/a show fault (Dustin was cryptorchid and Matti is too tiny (6.5lbs) to be bred safely to come available and then you convince them that you are suitable. These true show breeders w/the dog's best interests at heart are really stringent. Limited reg. only. Not that I care. At least these two are preventing those unsuitable for breeding from being bred.

Alyssa, yes, it's all true...but it's not just showlines, IMHO. Some pet breeders (BYBs) are breeding the worse Frankendogs of all. Some really top show breeders, are still, for the most part (and not in every breed, unfortunately) concerned about the dogs. It's horrible in some breeds, not so bad in others. I think what's so disturbing about GSDs is that they were meant to be working dogs. I like a dog to be what they were designed to be.

 Quote: Jenni Williams

Which dog? What year? 2003? Did they ever actually confirm that?
Not that I doubt it...

I wasn't talking about other countries; I was talking about us. We have enough problems w/out looking out of the country for more, LOL.

To the best of my knowledge, yes. The UK Kennel Club did confirm that Danny (2003) had a soft palate resection.

The US isn't much better.

I'm not saying all breeders, or purebred dogs are evil.

What I'm saying is, when a clear standard and goal is not established for ALL breeders of a breed to adhere to, that preserves the health, purpose and well-being of the breed, you end up with franken-dogs.