Jenn,

To answer some of your questions:

We live in a 2 unit townhouse and our bedroom is on the shared wall between the units. Otto is in a room on the other side of our bedroom in the family room, away from our neighbors. We use our bedroom and guest room as sound barriers to not disturb our neighbors. Therefore, we haven't had him in our room. However, we have tried sleeping in the family room with him. It seemed worse when he knew we were there, but not paying attention to him.

We have a routine, and when he goes into the crate, we do not pay any attention to him, and generally we're right out the door. At night, we're right in bed.

He get's a Kong with PB, cream cheese, or that Kong Stuffn' stuff. It keeps his attention for as long as it takes him to clear the Kong out...and then he starts in with the tantrum.

We play with him so much, that he lays on the floor and tries to sleep. When he does that, we bother him, and try to wake him up and play. He will sometimes play a little more, or most often, he gets up, walks across the room, and tries to sleep away from us bothering him. That being said, I feel that if he's so tired he can't keep his eyes open, then he must be pooped and excercised enough... would you agree?

I haven't read that book. Maybe I'll check it out.

I'm gathering from your post, because you didn't answer my e-collar question, that you think there are other options I should be exploring?

I really don't want to make him adjust to his crate via compliance, but I'm at a total loss. Although it's not his fault, I'm getting really frustrated with the situation.

Anyone else have any comments on the e-collar idea?

Christian

Well your dog sounds like my first German Shepherd and I gave up crate training about two weeks into it. He never slept in the crate from the time I caved (he was ten weeks old) until the time he died over 10 years later. He slept on the floor in our bedroom and would nudge me when he wanted to go outside. He only had a couple of accidents the whole time he was alive. He was awesome in the house breaking dept.

If your dog is not house broken, you might want to try leashing him to the bed so that that he will wake you up when he needs to go out. Same principal as a crate he won't mess where he sleeps.

I know it is heresy to suggest giving up but there is a point when you have to say enough is enough, and almost a month with no sleep sounds like a great point to quit to me.

Good luck from your weak willed friend!

Caveat: I am by no means a dog trainer or expert so take my two cents for what it is worth about two cents.

Tri-Tronics does not recommend e-collars for puppies under 6 months. Of course they are not trying to sleep with your dog next to them.

No e-collar, pups too young.

And I was never able to really tire out my pups with anything I did in the house. They would seem tired but still keep me up periodically in the night.

I have to remove my dogs from the house/yard to give them a real workout. So by going to friends homes with dogs (pups wrestling with pups wears them out), or with me going on long OFF leashed walks in the woods with the pups. Or being out walking on Main Street having an hour or so of meet and greets for socialization.

You may want to try the leashed by the bed rather than crate. But the pup will still have to be in the room with you. Have a bit easier access to scruff for a 'quiet' (gentle type scruff though, to get their attention but not terrify them).

One of the hardest things I've found about pups is they are all different. Be alot easier for all of us if we could 'cookie cut' all the training. Why sites like this are good because we have different backgrounds and experiences and have raised pups with different temperments.

Here's another site with TONS of info on crate training. Maybe some suggestions the rest of us haven't come up with for you yet. http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/lib-SpecTrain.htm#crate

Originally posted by Trent Bond:
Well your dog sounds like my first German Shepherd and I gave up crate training about two weeks into it. He never slept in the crate from the time I caved (he was ten weeks old) until the time he died over 10 years later. He slept on the floor in our bedroom and would nudge me when he wanted to go outside. He only had a couple of accidents the whole time he was alive. He was awesome in the house breaking dept. When you left the house, did you crate him? If not, how did you keep him from being destructive?

I really don't feel like crate training is optional for us. We really can't leave him out unsupervised. He's not a bad dog, but if he gets bored, I can just imagine the damage he can do.

One last bit of information.

His first experience with his crate was when he was being shipped to us. He was in a car to the airport for 1.5 hours. Then on a 3 hour flight. Then on a 2.5 hour ride home. He was let out for breaks along the way (except during the flight) and had no accidents in the crate.

I'm worried he may have been traumatized by the experience, and now he has a phobia of his crate being closed.

Or maybe separation anxiety?

We may try using a wire cage type crate, instead of the plastic type he's in now. Maybe he'll look at it differently.... who knows. I wish the little guy could talk and tell me what the damn problem is... --shrug--

Christian. I think that switching to a wire crate is an excellent idea. Roxy used to whine over going in her crate at night, when she was small and we had a plastic crate. She was never as bad with it as your pup, but it was still a problem. As soon as we switched her to the wire crate, the whining stopped. You can get large wire crates that have a divider to make the crate smaller for when the pup is little.

We had a run outside that he stayed when we were gone. If it was nasty or hot weather he would get to stay inside when he got older (over a year). He was never destructive. He really was a great dog except for the crate and serious issues with dog aggression.

If I where you and you cannot put him outside then he would be in the crate when I was gone. I bet he does not cry nearly as much when you are at work or gone. Plus if your not there then, he will not have anybody to bother with the cries.

Good Luck,

We just got our new pup from Connecticut we live in Beaumont, Texas which is like a 5 hr Plane ride and you have to transfer planes. You could tell which pup was ours when he got here because he was the one screaming to get out of the crate. After letting him out for a potty break he got stuck back in (he was not a happy camper) for the hour and half ride to Beaumont.

Orginally, we put him downstairs as far away from our bedroom as possible as we anticipated a rough few nights. He was terrible you would have thought he was being beat the way he screamed. Seeing I was about to cave in again we went out and bought a wire crate and I put the t-shirt I wore that day in there with the pup thinking my scent would comfort him. We also moved him to our Berdoom. These actions worked he whined a little and went to sleep and after a week are so he was sleeping through the night in his crate.

In short I think the wire crate is a great idea and you might want put in somthing with your scent. Also you might want to move him to your bedroom on a trial basis (at least until you think your nieghbors are about to throw you out) and see if it works.

Now we have only had this new German Shepherd a month so we will see if my luck holds out.

I will be picking up his new wire crate tomorrow. Fortunately, a friend is not using the one they had for their Chocolate Lab, and is donating it to our crate training cause. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I remember correctly...in one of Ed's articles on crate training, he mentioned using a "cow mat". One in the crate, and one underneath it to cut down on the noise. Does anyone know where to get a cow mat? Never heard of these before...

Anyone had an experience using one?