Poor pup. I took a peek at the link. At least they are honest about his assessment if not wrong about his "training" needs.

Good luck, Shep. I hope they don't destroy his spirit or ruin him for good.

And, sorry they took him away from you, Alyssa.

Shep doesn't have "training" problems.

Before I gave up, he and I were working quite well on his marker training.

The problem is, he's smart, pushy and needs a firm hand. He'll walk all over you otherwise.

I always thought halties were used for attention, helping keep the dog looking up at you. I thought they werent meant to keep a dog from pulling. Did something change or did I just have it wrong all this time?

Heck if I know, honestly.
The principle they were going on was that he wouldn't be able to pull towards the other dog. May or may not have been what the haltie was designed for.

It worked quite well for about two weeks.

One thing I don't like about halties is the cutting into the muzzle. My friend's female pulls so hard, head down, that by the time we have completed a mile, the haltie has marked her muzzle and it stays marked for hours. The male seems to mind fairly well in it, but he still walks way ahead and pulls. NOT a pleasant walk for me. I take the sweetie who is leash responsive...

Also, the haltie pulls to one side. If the dog you are trying to avoid is on the side the head pulls toward, won't that make them more inclined to attack?

I have noticed some postings about being a "Koehler old School guy". Thirty two years ago when I won my scholarship I was required to study two books. One was Leone Whitney "Dog Psychology" and the other was "William Koehler’s Method of Training". There are quite a few followers of Koehler’s method to the letter. I am not one of them. Since my introduction of training dogs I have kept an open mind while observing many other trainers including the one I am visiting now on the other side of the country. To this day I will use and modify what I think is humane, practical and effective. You mentioned that I use the throw chain (Koehler method) and that is correct. However, I do not use it for "getting the dogs attention". I use it when they turn their back to run from their master after given a “come” command; to teach them never to run from them and to stop the chase game. It is a matter of safety to own a dog that trust you and never runs from you.

 Quote: ron pace

..... You mentioned that I use the throw chain (Koehler method) and that is correct. However, I do not use it for "getting the dogs attention". I use it when they turn their back to run from their master after given a “come” command; to teach them never to run from them and to stop the chase game. It is a matter of safety to own a dog that trust you and never runs from you.

I don't understand: if it's not to get the dog's attention, what is it for?

I absolutely train for a great recall and no catch-me games (and I too consider the recall a matter of utmost importance and safety), but have not found a need for a throw chain. What does it do, if not to startle the dog to attention?

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: ron pace

..... You mentioned that I use the throw chain (Koehler method) and that is correct. However, I do not use it for "getting the dogs attention". I use it when they turn their back to run from their master after given a “come” command; to teach them never to run from them and to stop the chase game. It is a matter of safety to own a dog that trust you and never runs from you.

I don't understand: if it's not to get the dog's attention, what is it for?

I absolutely train for a great recall and no catch-me games (and I too consider the recall a matter of utmost importance and safety), but have not found a need for a throw chain. What does it do, if not to startle the dog to attention?

It sort of sounds like it's used to punish the dog for not obeying...sort of like hitting from a safe distance? Hopefully I'm misinterpreting. What else would you use a throw chain for though when not using it to get the dog's attention?

Call it what you want but when you turn a dog loose in an open area to run you better have a way to stop him. (they are faster than humans) The throw chain is a tool that we use as the dog turns his back to run to toss under handed at his feet to teach him not to turn his back and run. For pete sakes people we are not beating him with it. It involves perfect timing and accuracy. I am not suggesting for everyone reading this to use it because obviously you do not know how. But if you would like a demonstration please let me know, and by the way you are welcome to bring a Humane Society official.

 Quote: jo harker

One thing I don't like about halties is the cutting into the muzzle. My friend's female pulls so hard, head down, that by the time we have completed a mile, the haltie has marked her muzzle and it stays marked for hours.

This was our experience as well - it lessened the pulling for a very brief period, but then Oscar figured out he could pull through IT just like he could a flat collar, and then it really dug into his nose. His fur is so short that it actually wore a little bare spot on the top of his muzzle! That's when we called it quits with the Halti... For the record, we switched to the no-pull harness next (where the lead connects to the chest, as opposed to over the shoulders) and the EXACT same thing happened, except that rubbing and hair loss occurred in his "armpits", just behind his elbows, instead of on his nose!

The HS prong changed our world and even though Oscar's leash manners are heaps better than they were when he was younger, he VERY rarely goes anywhere without it now. No gagging, no coughing AND it's ridiculously effective - what more could you ask for!

Jo, you should definitely talk to the Leerburg sales crew about prong fitting, but Oscar has a little bit of "wattle" under his chin and we've always fit the prong so that it's snug to the NECK, not the skin around it. The loose skin will get tucked in a little under it, but if you don't have it close to the actual neck muscle, it'll just slide down to where a flat collar would sit, and then it'll be much less effective. I "re-fit" a prong collar on a dog I was dog sitting once - this dog wore his like a Hawaiian Lei - and MAN was it night and day! As wonderful as I think they are, prongs that are ill fitted can be just as useless as anything else... it pays to learn how to use them correctly.

~Natalya