Jennifer Lee wrote 03/25/2009 04:39 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #233191 - 03/25/2009 04:39 PM
Jennifer Lee Webboard User Reg: 12-16-2007 Posts: 2851 Loc: oklahoma Offline	I was always under the impression that one way to teach them a new behavior with the marker was to catch them doing something you want and mark it. Sort of like shaping where you give no direction and mark when they get it right. (or part of it right.)
Top
Connie Sutherland wrote 03/25/2009 04:43 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Jennifer Lee ] #233192 - 03/25/2009 04:43 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: jennifer lee Have you tried catching the behavior you want and clicking for it? I keep treats stashed in every room for this purpose. Like laying on the dog bed, or sitting nicely when company is here.  Quote: connie sutherland Wait a second, though. You mark for unasked-for but good stuff? I do say "good boys!" and pat or even treat when they are doing what I want them to be doing (no training going on). Much different (to me) from marking/rewarding a command.  Quote: jennifer lee I was always under the impression that one way to teach them a new behavior with the marker was to catch them doing something you want and mark it. Sort of like shaping where you give no direction and mark when they get it right. (or part of it right.) We're having two different conversations. I have to think how to say it. HELP!
Top
Connie Sutherland wrote 03/25/2009 04:54 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #233194 - 03/25/2009 04:54 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	If the dog is "sitting nicely when company is here" and you mark/reward, what precise command have you marked/rewarded? Or what exact behavior have you caught and marked? (I am NOT saying not to reinforce wanted stuff. Work with me here, for a sec.)
Top
Aaron Myracle wrote 03/25/2009 04:57 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #233195 - 03/25/2009 04:57 PM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	Marking random, un-asked for behaviors is a great way to load the marker. Beyond that, though, it really degrades the idea of "training time" in the dog's mind. Praise, or even a treat for good behavior is a good positive reinforcer for sure. My preferance is to keep the marker pure, though, and only use it in a strictly training context.
Top
Connie Sutherland wrote 03/25/2009 04:59 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #233196 - 03/25/2009 04:59 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Alyssa Myracle ... Praise, or even a treat for good behavior is a good positive reinforcer for sure. My preferance is to keep the marker pure, though, and only use it in a strictly training context. That's it!!!! Thanks.
Top
Aaron Myracle wrote 03/25/2009 05:01 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #233197 - 03/25/2009 05:01 PM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	I can think of several reasons why keeping the marker pure is critical. First and foremost, when you don't keep it pure, it reduces the liklihood of the dog offering behaviors. Its almost as though you are bringing the reward to him, rather than him performing for the reward. Second, how do you go about introducing an actual cue or command for the behavior? Third, does the dog really understand which behavior was being marked? Because he wasn't actively engaged in a training mindset at the moment the mark came, did he understand which behavior was being "captured"? Was the dog aware of all the potential behaviors that had been "offered" and which one was correct?
Top
Pat Raynes wrote 03/25/2009 05:03 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Angela Burrell ] #233198 - 03/25/2009 05:03 PM
Pat Raynes Webboard User Reg: 03-15-2009 Posts: 77 Loc: AL Offline	Maybe if you gave him a treat when he steps up without the clicker and have a leash on him so that if he starts to go backwards you can put tension on it? Sounds like he associates backing with the clicker.
Top
Jennifer Lee wrote 03/25/2009 05:04 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #233199 - 03/25/2009 05:04 PM
Jennifer Lee Webboard User Reg: 12-16-2007 Posts: 2851 Loc: oklahoma Offline	LOL Im not sure if this is what you mean or not but I am going to try to explain myself better. I know I have read, I think in a Karen pryor, book that you can catch them doing what you want and use the marker to enforce it. It might mean that they stop doing what they are doing for a minute, but they will know what they were doing when they got that click and likely go back to it, then you can click again. To me this is similar to shaping, in that you aren't telling them what to do, just marking when they get it right. I did wonder about all the other times they lay on the bed and don't get a click, but they don't get clicked every time they sit or lie down either
Top
Aaron Myracle wrote 03/25/2009 05:08 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Jennifer Lee ] #233200 - 03/25/2009 05:08 PM
Aaron Myracle Webboard User Reg: 06-06-2008 Posts: 5062 Loc: WA, USA Offline	That, to me, is the intro to marker training for the dog. Part of the process of loading the clicker/marker. Your last sentance,  Quote: Jennifer Lee I did wonder about all the other times they lay on the bed and don't get a click, but they don't get clicked every time they sit or lie down either kind of illustrates to me the problem with marking random, un-requested behaviors. Because they don't ALWAYS get the mark for the same behaviors, it degrades the marker, and their enthusiasm for the behavior. A black/white, all/nothing dichotemy is better understood by the dog. We can create that sort of perspective by ALWAYS marking/rewarding in training, and never marking outside of training. Does that make sense?
Top
Jennifer Lee wrote 03/25/2009 05:12 PM Re: working with training quirks [Re: Aaron Myracle ] #233202 - 03/25/2009 05:12 PM
Jennifer Lee Webboard User Reg: 12-16-2007 Posts: 2851 Loc: oklahoma Offline	Yes it does. But "That being said" (LOL) Angela's dog has only learned one behavior with the clicker and seems to equate the clicker only with backing up. So going back and redoing the loading and beginning steps of marker training might make it clear to him that the click means something other than just back up.
Top

Previous Topic

Index

Next Topic

Page 3 of 7 <<12345>>Last

When purchasing any product from Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. it is understood that any and all products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. are sold in Dunn County Wisconsin, USA. Any and all legal action taken against Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. concerning the purchase or use of these products must take place in Dunn County, Wisconsin. If customers do not agree with this policy they should not purchase Leerburg Ent. Inc. products.

Dog Training is never without risk of injury. Do not use any of the products sold by Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. without consulting a local professional. The training methods shown in the Leerburg Ent. Inc. DVD’s are meant to be used with a local instructor or trainer. Leerburg Enterprises, Inc. cannot be held responsible for accidents or injuries to humans and/or animals.

Copyright 2010 Leerburg® Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved. All photos and content on leerburg.com are part of a registered copyright owned by Leerburg Enterprise, Inc. By accessing any information within Leerburg.com, you agree to abide by the Leerburg.com Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.