I was just going to post to that. Stomach is an organ, that's true, and I believe the stomach walls/lining is contained in green tripe. But stomach is a muscular organ (like the heart) and so for that reason, I don't consider it an organ in the same sense that kidney and liver are. Just as the heart IS an organ, most people consider heart a muscle meat, not an organ.

Edit:
For that matter, I would expect gizzard is also a muscular organ....I don't feed enough of it one way or the other to matter with the size of my dogs, but how do most people view it? Muscle meat or organ? I always thought MM....



Edited by Jennifer Mullen (03/27/2009 03:30 PM)
Edit reason: Addition....and man but I can't spell today....eesh.

Stomach and contents, I think...

Edited by (03/27/2009 03:30 PM)
Edit reason: Coming in late, as usual.

 Quote: nora ferrell

If you feed green tripe would that meet the organ requirement?

Ok, I know that just about everything in our bodies can be referred to as an organ, but in this context we're talking about the nutritional value of different "organs" so looking at the "organ's" function will tell you if it's considered a muscle meat or an organ meat.

The heart is a muscle - it contracts. The stomach also mechanically squishes and pushes food around, so it's also more of a muscle than an organ (yes, smooth muscle and skeletal muscle aren't exactly the same thing, but in this context of nutritional value it doesn't really matter).

So tripe is something I'd consider muscle meat. Organs are stuff like liver, kidney, lung, spleen - those need to be fed too (at least liver and kidney since that's what's usually more available)! They have a much higher concentration in various vitamins and minerals compared to muscles (stomach & heart included) so they need to be fed in their own right.
They should be given in smaller amounts than muscles of course or you'll risk digestive upsets as well as potential vitamin toxicities (example: feeding far too much liver for too long results in vitamin A overdosing and toxicity).

I hope that helps

Yes, this clears things up very well.

I over think everything, but once I get the hang of it, I'm ok.

Maybe all this is splitting hairs, but there's nothing wrong with gaining knowledge, either.

Yuko, I watched your video, not near as gruesome as I had feared.

Your dog looks like mine did when she tore in to the deer.

Thanks for sharing.

For raw-feeding purposes, "organs" are glands or secreting bodies--liver, kidney, spleen, thymus, pancreas, brain would be the major ones.

"If it does not secrete, feed it as meat! LOL

BTW, gizzards are a great cheap source of muscle meat. There's a store here that sells enormous 10-pound family packs of nothing but chicken gizzards. Which astounds me every time I buy it. I can't fathom how many chickens the pile represents.

Dear G-d, the ghost of Johnny Cochran is giving feeding advice.

Super creepy.

 Quote: Nora Ferrell

Thanks, Yuko, for all the advice.

Tell me a little more about the videos before I watch them. I'm a little squeamish.

OMG, I'm not normally squeamish, but I almost puked watching that. Maybe because I'm in my first trimester and already suffering from morning/all-day sickness, but as soon as he pulled out what looked like the stomach, I almost lost my lunch. Hmm, I hope I don't have that same reaction when I start feeding my puppy raw this weekend.

You won't.

Unless you feed a lot of turkey... it has a lingering smell for some reason.

That, and tripe, which does more than linger.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

That, and tripe, which does more than linger.

Yeah. It grows. And gathers strength.

Nora, several people in our club are also involved in an ongoing Pug rescue/foster project. So I know many small dogs (and have two myself!).

So I can pass on some produce tips that someone with just one small dog can use.

One is to open the green tripe can and freeze it in small amounts. Another is to get jars of mixed-vegetable baby food (and even the organic no-salt no-sugar nothing-but-vegs baby foods are pretty cheap, too -- at least at the natural foods store I use). When you are using a teaspoon or tablespoon of produce, that's a simple, already-processed source. There are "junior" jars if you use more. It's true that enzymes are killed in the cooking process, but variety in the diet is going to ensure that you do supply enzymes in other foods, such as the produce that is given without cooking. (Another vote for variety! )

Then there are frozen wild blueberries, which all of my dogs love and which are right up there with foods that a wild canid would actually find and eat on his own. They are a low-sugar fruit, too.

In summer you can get zucchini and other soft summer squashes and freeze them. The freezing alone will soften and break up what cellulose there is (very little in zucchini-guts anyway) as ice crystals penetrate the cell walls. This is true of other produce items too, of course. So produce that starts fairly low in cellulose can be broken down nicely by freezing, some with no other smooshing process needed.

As mentioned by Yuko and others, I agree that it's best to avoid most of the root vegetables (starchy) and the tropical fruits (sugary) as well as other sugary produce.

And again, produce is a comparatively very small part of the diet. Easy and cheap to supply even in the absence of green tripe (which I think is a great addition to the dog's diet) .....