 Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Mike Bellemare ]
#257688 - 11/25/2009 04:16 PM |
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Maybe, if he hasn't already see if your vet will do a scraping for Demodectic Mange, 2, 3. After six months we finally just found it on Beau.
He didn't show any hair loss but like your pup he's been itchy forever(his brothers too) and no one could figure out why. We were told it was a probably an allergy. Been trying to find out what's he was allergic too ever since. When we switched to grain free food and it got better but never went totally away.
Last weekend was the first time I noticed any hair loss, a small bare circle on his thigh. The vet did a scraping yesterday and finally found it.
We were given a behind-the-neck flea treatment that's he's had good results with. If that doesn't work it's dips, dips and more dips.
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#257696 - 11/25/2009 04:50 PM |
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#1 for everyone else reading: ALWAYS reserve protein sources for this possibility. "Reserve" means the dog never has even a taste of it.
yeah - I'm sure i can find stuff like kangaroo or emu or anything more exotic than farm animals but that might be hard...
Where exactly does the dog concentrate when he scratches/bites himself? Was there any seasonal aspect to this?
not seasonal. At first it was the knee and forearms, now it looks like ribs and forearms and ears
You are actually receiving good advice, but maybe which way to lean can be narrowed down with these questions. I'm not a fan of unnecessary Pred, but oral Pred at the lowest effective dose, tapered off under the vet's supervision, is indeed a good way to rule out food allergies. First narrow the possibility down that it's atopy.
only side effects i got told is more hunger and more thirsty...is that it?
Atopy is more likely than food, but let's get the answers to these questions, and also make absolutely sure that you have ruled out flea hypersensitivity.
Well I think so... he's been ruled free of flea by other vet, and there's no flea dirt in his fur..any other way?
eta
How bad is it? Is he getting ear infections? Disturbed sleep? Frantic drawing-blood scratching/biting?
no ear infection, only disturbed naps but not often. it is a bit frantic...he can scratch for 20-30 seconds stretch behind the ears, and same on the ribs (enough that he actually spins on himself while doing so...
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Melissa Hau ]
#257697 - 11/25/2009 04:52 PM |
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Mike,
If you are worried about the side effects of steroids, you may want to ask the derm vet about Atopica. Atopica is a cyclosporine, still an immunosuppressant and has its side effects, but I chose　Atopica over steroids in treating my GSD for her skin allergy issues.
Atopica worked well for my GSD. The derm vet did said that since she responded well to Atopica, her allergy was environment based, not food related.
Thanks Melissa!
And now how do you cope with the allergy? do you still give the medication?
What are the advantages on Atopica versus steroids?
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Nic Kaiman ]
#257698 - 11/25/2009 04:53 PM |
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Maybe, if he hasn't already see if your vet will do a scraping for Demodectic Mange, 2, 3. After six months we finally just found it on Beau.
He didn't show any hair loss but like your pup he's been itchy forever(his brothers too) and no one could figure out why. We were told it was a probably an allergy. Been trying to find out what's he was allergic too ever since. When we switched to grain free food and it got better but never went totally away.
Last weekend was the first time I noticed any hair loss, a small bare circle on his thigh. The vet did a scraping yesterday and finally found it.
We were given a behind-the-neck flea treatment that's he's had good results with. If that doesn't work it's dips, dips and more dips.
didnt think of that, i'll call the derm vet to see if by her analysis she ruled that out and that she's 100% sure it's not that...no fur loss (except from the stratching, just a tad on the ears) here neither
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Mike Bellemare ]
#257701 - 11/25/2009 05:28 PM |
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"At first it was the knee and forearms, now it looks like ribs and forearms and ears"
Food allergy is by far the least likely of the Big Three (flea hypersensitivity, atopy, and food allergy), but itchy face, belly, foot/limb, and ear infections are some of the common symptoms of food allergy. Do you mean lower ribs or more towards the spine?
Some of the major points that might make you lean towards food would be mange absolutely ruled out (or treated and no change), poor response to cortisone (or the like), zero seasonality, and the pattern of itch something like described.
I hope the vet has eliminated mange, too, but I'd ask. (A GP vet might be led astray by external parasites like mange if s/he thought it unlikely, and focus on allergies, but I am guessing that a derm vet was very careful to rule it out.)
"only side effects i got told is more hunger and more thirsty...is that it?"
There are potential long-term side effects that can be very serious, but this would be a short-term regimen, carefully observed.
Has the dog ever eaten venison? I'm trying to get a feel for how difficult the elimination diet is going to be.
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#257704 - 11/25/2009 05:44 PM |
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I forgot to add that if it's atopy, skin tests ("scratch" tests*) will then narrow down the allergens. The course after that depends on the results. For example, it may be that his biggest allergen is something that can be partially or completely removed from his environment or that he can be managed in order to avoid proximity. Or it may be that immunotherapy is recommended. This would be after fish oil in a therapeutic dose as well as antihistamines are trialed (but I assume he is on fish oil, since you read this board  ).
He is on fish oil, right? And you have done antihistamine trials? Also, dogs with atopic dermatitis often have flea allergy too; is he on a flea med?
eta
How old is he? How old when the itching started?
*Intradermal skin tests
Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/25/2009 05:47 PM)
Edit reason: eta
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#257746 - 11/26/2009 12:45 AM |
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Loc: greater denver, co
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"At first it was the knee and forearms, now it looks like ribs and forearms and ears"
Food allergy is by far the least likely of the Big Three (flea hypersensitivity, atopy, and food allergy), but itchy face, belly, foot/limb, and ear infections are some of the common symptoms of food allergy. Do you mean lower ribs or more towards the spine?
Some of the major points that might make you lean towards food would be mange absolutely ruled out (or treated and no change), poor response to cortisone (or the like), zero seasonality, and the pattern of itch something like described.
I hope the vet has eliminated mange, too, but I'd ask. (A GP vet might be led astray by external parasites like mange if s/he thought it unlikely, and focus on allergies, but I am guessing that a derm vet was very careful to rule it out.)
"only side effects i got told is more hunger and more thirsty...is that it?"
There are potential long-term side effects that can be very serious, but this would be a short-term regimen, carefully observed.
Has the dog ever eaten venison? I'm trying to get a feel for how difficult the elimination diet is going to be.
low ribs (mid section)...sometimes the thigh too...
unfortunately, he had venison for the first time 2 weeks ago (darn it)
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#257747 - 11/26/2009 12:49 AM |
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I forgot to add that if it's atopy, skin tests ("scratch" tests*) will then narrow down the allergens. The course after that depends on the results. For example, it may be that his biggest allergen is something that can be partially or completely removed from his environment or that he can be managed in order to avoid proximity. Or it may be that immunotherapy is recommended. This would be after fish oil in a therapeutic dose as well as antihistamines are trialed (but I assume he is on fish oil, since you read this board ).
He is on fish oil, right? And you have done antihistamine trials? Also, dogs with atopic dermatitis often have flea allergy too; is he on a flea med?
eta
How old is he? How old when the itching started?
*Intradermal skin tests
i havent done antihistamine trials, is that a derm vet or a regular vet request? same for scratch test, i assume its different than the test the derm vet wants to do if he reacts well to steroids (shave a patch and sting 60+ times to find out what he is allergic to)
he's on flea med and he's on fish oil too...
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Mike Bellemare ]
#257764 - 11/26/2009 10:35 AM |
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... i havent done antihistamine trials, is that a derm vet or a regular vet request? same for scratch test, i assume its different than the test the derm vet wants to do if he reacts well to steroids (shave a patch and sting 60+ times to find out what he is allergic to)
he's on flea med and he's on fish oil too...
Scratch test = the test you describe (intradermal). Same thing, different colloquial terms.
You have not tried hydroxyzine or chlorpheniramine? Neither vet suggested antihistamine trials? They don't benefit all dogs (30%, or up to 45% if fish oil is used at the same time), but certainly enough are benefited to try what are actually inexpensive meds, safer by a long shot than steroids. Not as likely to work, but I can't think why they were not suggested for trial periods. JMO.
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Re: itching/scratching
[Re: Mike Bellemare ]
#257765 - 11/26/2009 10:36 AM |
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... unfortunately, he had venison for the first time 2 weeks ago (darn it)
Stop adding new protein sources and making them ineligible for an elimination diet!
Has he ever eaten duck?
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