Cesar Millan is a hugely knowledgeable and talented dog person. But you and your husband are not paying any attention to the groundwork, the foundation work (and there is a LOT of it) underneath the pack that minds his every gesture and word. So turn it off.

I would really and truly start reading here and watching videos. You are going to find the same adherence to pack structure AND the work you have to do to get there.

Want a list of recommended material? You could re-home a dog and learn how to be a real pack leader with the others. BUT NOT UNLESS YOUR HUSBAND JOINS YOU.

And crate the dogs at night. The crate is a safe den for each dog.

 Quote: Kathy West

Good Luck, it is doable.

Not without her husband being on board. These dogs need pack leaders. They don't have this. This husband is not only allowing his dogs to be attacked, he is allowing his wife to be attacked.

I have multiple large breed dogs. I manage them. Everyone is happy. But I don't have anyone undermining me.

I would just echo Connie's post, but since what she has written applies so well, I will simply re-iterate it here. I also would like to know if you have seen any videos or read any articles on here.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

You are using a halti and an e-collar, with no foundation training .... whose idea was that?

How is your husband going to learn how to handle and train if this is what it took to teach him to separate the dogs?

If I were in a situation with the other human completely fighting order and allowing dogs to be attacked and mauled in his home, I would surrender the two Aussies (regardless of the terms, because your home is absolutely not right for them as it is) and I would also remove myself from the foster home list.

I am not trying to be harsh. I am trying to be honest.

This is a terrible situation. I do not see it improving, either. In what world is a house with multiple attacks allowed to continue without separating the dogs a good foster home?

Have you ever read any of the Leerburg articles or watched any of the videos?

 Quote: carol galka

you have to realize that the only dog behavior guidance we had was Ceasar Millan's program.

You, and a LOT of Americans.

Welcome to Leerburg. While Cesar is a great trainer, his methods cannot be implemented by 99.9% of people.
You fall into the 99.9% It's a pretty inclusive group, LOL.

For the rest of us people who AREN'T Milan, the methods you'll read here actually work, and can be applied by someone who isn't a "Dog Whisperer".

No offense, but I am legitimately curious as to how, as a vet,the concept of a crate a foreign concept to you?

In addition, for the same reason, why is Cesar Milan's program your only training reference?

Now, don't get me wrong, I like his show, but I also have all of his books, and I don't even have a dog. His program is just that, a television show. His books explain his theories much better.

Besides that, there are numerous other training books and DVDs at your disposal (such as sold here at Leerburg.)


Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really am curious.

I will let Carol answer that but I wouldnt think just because someone is a vet that they would be knowlegable in dog training-
JMO

That is true, hopefully he will be on board now that he has actually witnessed one of the bad fights. Its just me at my house so I wasn't thinking about a hubby-

 Quote: John Vanek

In addition, for the same reason, why is Cesar Milan's program your only training reference?

Many people make this error in thinking.

Vets receive almost no instruction in animal behavior or training.
Even less than they receive in proper nutrition, if you can believe THAT.

Some Vets are very knowledgable dog traininers- but it is not a product of their Veterinary training. It is a product of their own independant study and experience, excluded from their medical knowledge.

I am very appreciative of everybody's responses. thank you very much for your input.
in hindsight, of course it was stupid to try keeping the dogs together..
when you watch Ceasar Millan, his advice is to always take control (whatever that means) by making the dogs that are having issues walk together and interact. he always criticizes people who isolate dogs from each other. he says the only way to make things better is to confront the problem.
so my husband was following Ceasar's suggestions, and had the firm belief that keeping the dogs seperate was only going to further alienate them from each other, and the only way to restore the "pack" to harmonious living situation was to get "back to normal", meaning have them living the way they did (all loose together even when unsupervised) prior to the fighting.
in the meantime we had scheduled an appointment with the behaviorist and ordered her book, and other books also...
even when we met with the behaviorist she did not suggest seperating the dogs. by that time we had already moved Grace to my folks home...
so we were trying to be proactive in stopping the fighting, with the limited information we had to go by, and trying to do the Ceasar Millan methods.
I only found out about this site last weekend.
hope this helps to explain why we "allowed" 6 fights to occur.
hindsight..of course I should have done everything differently from square one.

of course I understand the concept of a crate..what I meant was that the idea of crating is/was foreign to me in our household, cause all the dogs got along, and actively laid together, played together, explored the woods together, and there was never the slightest evidence of any animosity between them.
as a vet...I had zero training in behavior issues, although I have counseled many people with unstable dogs..encouraging socializing and taking them for training,etc.
when I am at home I am a dogmom...and I "assumed" till 4 months ago, that my dogs would be my "family" and never imagined this happening...
I guess a trained behaviorist would have been able to see the red flags far earlier than I did (the first I saw red flags was when Cliff raced across the yard and grabbed Sophie by the neck).so yeah, this situation caught this dogmom off guard.
I did try to tell my husband throughout the past 2 years that he was letting the pups have too much free reign, but his attitude was that I do the vet work and nutrition aspects of the dog care, and leave the disciplining to him.
so that is what I did.
hindsight again..that was the wrong choice.

Good for you for having an open mind.

Caesar’s methods may work, but only AFTER you have complete control over each dog. Again, COMPLETE CONTROL. Even then, it is still not necessary to have dogs as buddies. Mine don’t hang out together. They get along fine (one is still a pup, so that may change) but I have no interest in having them wander around together and “packing up”.

What you guys need to do (and this includes your husband) is order the DVD on Basic Obedience , and Pack Structure (you can get them as a set for less money...). In the mean time, read this e-book; Pack Structure . In it you will see how to re-establish control and leadership. You also need to start working with the dogs (alone) on training. Start here: Training With Treats .

I would highly recommend getting rid of the male dog, and plan on continuing the separation of the females for a long time. You may get to the point that they can be together supervised, but don’t have that be a goal, just something that may happen.

Your hardest thing to do here is going to be smacking some sense into your husband...