Quote: Keleah Stull

... Just from that I wouldn't own one unless I was:

A livestock herder in the Caucasus Mountains

I actually saw the original program on NGC a long time ago. I quit watching the youtube clip when the breeder said she tests her puppies for aggression between 3.5 - 5 weeks old.

sorry, but puppies (no matter what breed) are not neurologically or physically developed enough to test anything noteworthy about temperament until much later.

As Bugs Bunny says "What a maroon"

 Quote: betty waldron

I've never heard of the breed before this video, but they sound interesting.

I have, and every time I hear/read about it, there's always been a warning that it is not a very trustworthy animal, aggressive, hard to handle and basically watch out.

 Quote: betty waldron

The owner didn't have a clue obviously, but I wonder how much basic ob and pack leadership would of solved.

Actually, I noticed that the breeder's dogs, when she was present, actually behaved okay. She walked it in the public street, it didnt pull her, allowed strangers near it, and was behaving well. Also in the yard, the dogs came when called and acted submissively toward her. Her advice though, about encouraging aggression in puppies (and the baby scene) was scary. So that tells me that the owner was just way out of his league.

 Quote: dennis jones

did you notice some of them appeared to have thier ears cropped?

Yes. The ears are actually completely removed. It's in the standard. Apparently, the historical purpose of this was when the dog was acting as a flock guardian, it prevented wolves tearing the dog's ears during a fight.

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

quit watching the youtube clip when the breeder said she tests her puppies for aggression between 3.5 - 5 weeks old.

sorry, but puppies (no matter what breed) are not neurologically or physically developed enough to test anything noteworthy about temperament until much later.

And did you see HOW she tested them? Grabbing their muzzles? OMG If I do that to my adult dogs or puppies, they playfully mouth my hand also. They must have "aggression drive!" And then after the 3 week old puppy "aggressively attacks" her, she just flips it over to calm it down and then it is her friend again.

Yeah... very scary scene with the baby. I still don't quite understand some people's "need" to get an aggressive dog such as that. Absolutely no control over his dog IMO.

Watching that dog drag the guy across the lawn on his butt - flashes of an apartment hallway in San Francisco ran through my mind. Extremely powerful, aggressive dog + totally ineffective owner = bloodbath waiting to happen.

I was appalled at the scene with the baby. The dog is uncontrollable, weighs more than the handler, and in general is not SAFE to be around. The baby could VERY EASILY have been lunch.

That's a dog that requires a VERY ACCOMPLISHED handler and even at that, I would seriously doubt that it would respect the handler.

 Quote: Becky Shilling

Watching that dog drag the guy across the lawn on his butt - flashes of an apartment hallway in San Francisco ran through my mind. Extremely powerful, aggressive dog + totally ineffective owner = bloodbath waiting to happen.

Unfortunately that's where my thoughts went too. This owner is endangering people by owning a dog he can't manage AT ALL. I can't imagine what kind of breeder would breed a dog like this and then not screen who they sell to.

Peter is right: This type of dog appears to have little respect for a handler. I watched some of the other videos of this breed and none of them made me feel warm and fuzzy about a dog like this in a residential area of any kind.



It reminds me though: put bear spray on my shopping list

Frighteningly, this is one of those breeds that OC/Bear/Pepper spray is least likely to work on.

While it may have the effect of interfering with their vision, it will likely not deter them from an attack, because of their high pain tolerance.
Additionally, the thick facial fur makes it difficult to get it in their eyes/nose/mouth.

I think there is honestly very little a person could do to fend off an attack from this dog, as even a gunshot wound would likely serve to further enrage the dog. They'd probably continue the attack until they bled out.

This is the appeal for the lunatics that are attracted to the breed- once they decide to attack, there is probably nothing that can be done to end it.

Sane, rational people realize, however, that a dog that cannot be called off, or controlled physically or through obedience, is nothing but a loose cannon- and in this case, a very deadly one.

Its about like the difference between smart and dumb bombs.
A smart bomb (say, a GSD) can do a fair amount of damage. However, they can be targeted very precisely, directed, controlled and even disarmed by the operator.

A dumb bomb cannot. Once you drop the bomb, it's going to fall where it will, and nothing can be done to change that.

I wish I had time to say everything I needed to but alas I am not supposed to be online at work.

I understand where everyone is coming from here. The breeder/owner/situation in that vid and on the show gives me goosebumps. But I don't like the undertones here that blame the dogs for being what they were bred to be for hundreds of years. Or saying that anyone who has or breeds them is a crackpot.

The CO is one of those breeds that has a specific purpose. In my area there are a few breeds utilized to protect herds/livestock from bears, coyotes, cougars, and dumb drunk kids or poachers. The Maremma, the Anatolian, the Pyrenees, the Kuvasz, and the CO. Locally these dogs are bred for their original purpose and there are some very fine examples of the breed doing their jobs.

They are NOT housedogs or pets, until more recently (seen with the Anatolian, the Pyr, and the Kuvasz mainly) these dogs have not been bred to be biddable or friendly. These are strong guardian dogs intended to protect sheep/goats etc from BEARS, wolves, large predatory cats, and people that want to steal them. These dogs have been bred to do this on their own, without the guidance or company of a shepherd - only to tolerate the shepherd/owner.

Taking a dog like this and putting it anywhere in a city is asking for trouble. Without a herd of sheep they will guard whatever is "theirs" as in their territory, their humans, etc. Their aggression is defensive based because they are livestock guardians, not herders - high prey drive is not a good idea in a dog that is supposed to guard what would otherwise be dinner.

Depending on how they are raised, and the breed. They do a lot of crossing here between the different guardian breeds to bring down the size of the CO and the Pyr while maintaining work ability. Some of them are raised more as farm dogs, I've been around a few. They can be controlled, and they are not killer beasts. These are serious dogs with a serious job, and while I have no issues getting within 2 or 3 feet of one sitting at a ranchers feet, I would never even consider trying to approach one in the field with it's herd. Not because I think it is a dangerous or unpredictable animal, but because it is a dog bred to keep people and predators from its herd.

Saying that these dogs have no purpose and are in general a danger to society is offensive to me. Take any breed bred for strong working ability and put it completely out of its element and expect something the opposite of its temperament and see what you get. How about taking a nice high drive GSD pup and giving it to a woman with 4 small children that has never owned a dog before and wants a lazy no training required play toy for her kids. Would you blame the dog or the breed for the outcome of that situation? Or expecting an extreme dutchie to be a full time therapy dog?

We need to educate people how to correctly choose a dog for their needs, not slam a breed for poor decisions made by their owners.

 Quote: Jennifer Marshal

But I don't like the undertones here that blame the dogs for being what they were bred to be for hundreds of years. .... The CO is one of those breeds that has a specific purpose. .... (seen with the Anatolian, the Pyr, and the Kuvasz mainly) these dogs have not been bred to be biddable or friendly. These are strong guardian dogs intended to protect sheep/goats etc from BEARS, wolves, large predatory cats, and people that want to steal them. These dogs have been bred to do this on their own, without the guidance or company of a shepherd - only to tolerate the shepherd/owner. ..... We need to educate people how to correctly choose a dog for their needs, not slam a breed for poor decisions made by their owners.

Exactly correct. Hence my response:

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Keleah Stull

... Just from that I wouldn't own one unless I was:

A livestock herder in the Caucasus Mountains

(The Caucasus part was a bit tongue-in-cheek, I admit.)

I copyedited a book last year on the livestock guardians, and the four breeds you mention do indeed figure large in any international material addressing stock guardians. Taking them out of their milieu is indeed irresponsible (and I think cruel).