Animal control goes in first on drug raids?

And yes, please take this whole line to another thread. Thanks.


Back to Pit Bulls as PPDs .....

Never mind.. that post was based on a brief conversation i had with a police officer where obviously I misunderstood what he was talking about (wasn't a drug raid situation). Duh! Obviously not a good idea! The conversation has gone to PMs.

Back on topic now! Sorry.

Are pits more difficult to train the out than other breeds? I seem to recall reading that in another thread.

outside of the club I've yet to see a "nice" or trained PBT. its usually a guy with one hand on the lead being dragged down the street with the other hand holding his pants up or some guy with half a can of Skoal stuffed in his cheek with his wife/cousin close behind

 Quote: jenni williams

Johan, gotcha. I think this may be physiological, I have a friend who has dissected many many different kinds of dogs and animals for scientific purposes, and while we were looking at skulls and jaws and throat construction, we noticed a notable difference in available "windpipe" on a Pit than say, a GSD or a Mal. There was a difference in circumference that would corellate w/what you are saying, but only if you are saying what I think you mean- how long it physically takes them to black out or release due to oxygen deprivation.

If you don't mean literally choke, as in loss of consciousness, and are referring to a forced out/aus, then nevermind...my theory isn't relevant.

I have never choked out a Pit.

How do you mean you were unintentionally choking them out? Was it related to the angle of the bite? Was the dog overly muscled/extreme?

Off topic...sorry. These things just interest me.

We worked with a long leash and a flat collar + prong or e-collar and sometimes the dog "refused" to listen. The handler would pull on the leash and within 30 seconds the Pit would black out. He would fall like a piece off wood. That was when it became dangerous. When they came by they bit everything in front of them, a fence, a leg, a tree... you name it

Afterwards i tried it by taking the collar in my hand and turning my hand. Similar result.

From hear say from experienced handlers and one observation i know that for a Malinois it takes about 1 to 1.5 minutes to have him black out.

Greetings

Johan

why would it take longer for any other breed to black out? Im still not getting it

Also, at the beginning of this thread the poster mentioned that Diane Jessup didnt support PBs for bitework but several of her dogs are titled...
although I think I agree that generally, unless a very exceptional dog, pit bulls shouldnt be trained for any kind of attack simply because its not what they were meant to do. baiting and holding bulls and boars being in their heritage, but even in their more disreputable uses they were never allowed to harbor any sort of aggression towards humans even when threatened.

 Quote: dennis jones

outside of the club I've yet to see a "nice" or trained PBT. its usually a guy with one hand on the lead being dragged down the street with the other hand holding his pants up or some guy with half a can of Skoal stuffed in his cheek with his wife/cousin close behind

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d33/Jenwilliams918/Dogs%20and%20Me/DSC02676_edited.jpg

Dennis, which am I? I admit it's hard to keep my teeth like that with all the Skoal I chew....and I might break a nail if I had to hold my pants up all the time and at the same time hold the leash while being dragged down the street.

That post was not one of your more enlightened ones. Not to furhter derail the thread, but whether Pit Bulls are "nice" dogs was not what this thread was about, and I just couldn't resist but throw that in there.

Ok, now I'm just as guilty...but BACK TO PITS AS PPDs....

Personally, I think Simon would make a great PPD. He is totally stable, has great nerves and an outgoing, confident personality. I haven't done so b/c I am not sure I want to "open that door" so to speak. His sire has gotten in some trouble, and he is very similar to Simon in temperament. The incident w/his sire was totally warranted (someone broke into their home to steal their Chihuahua), but I believe Simon would absolutely bite someone for real in the right circumstance. I've been told he's extremely protective of my home in my absence.

For me, it's a protective measure for him. No matter what happens, no matter how "right" Simon was, I don't want him in the situation to have to defend me or my home simply because I don't trust the "system" to treat him the same as a PSD or GSD or Golden or any other breed who attacked an intruder. Sad, but true. I would much rather have Caleb do it; it's much more acceptable for a GSD to protect his home (still a potential legal nightmare) than a Pit, and that's just the way it is.

I don't think that because he's not formally trained that he won't bite someone; that's not what I'm saying. I just don't feel comfortable in practicing those scenarios with him so the public can call him some "trained attack dog" if he were to have to step up to the plate someday. I do think it would cause him some mental conflict in the training phase as well. I think in a real situation he would be fine w/biting, however.

I haven't read Jessup's perpspective lately, but I would imagine her opinion stems from similar reasons. Again, sport can be entirely different for the dog.

Hey,

I just wanted to throw in here that I have actually heard tell of how easy it is to choke out a pit bull. I had a friend who rescued pit bulls years ago. She didn't always practice the best management policies with her dogs, to say the least. One of her little girls was a proper pit through and through. She loved people, and she only attacked other dogs when she somehow got it in her head that that was the helpful thing to do (if the other dog was showing aggression or if the dog was being scolded by a person, she might jump in to help). Once she latched on, though, good luck getting her off. She'd grab the nose or ear and hang on for dear life. My friend told me that the only way she had been able to get her off in the two fights she'd gotten into was to choke her out. The dog never let go even when she was being choked to the point of passing out.

Was this just one particular pit bull that you had this experience with, or a bunch of them? I have certainly seen pit bulls putting a ton of pressure on the leash and collar for long periods of time, and never seen one black out that way.

Oh. I should have made it clear, Diane thinks that Protections SPORTS are great for pit bulls, but actual police and protection work are not OK. Since sports can be done all in prey drive, she feels that is different from police or protection work which requires different drives.