Quote: Scott Garrett

The vast majority of my interactions with LEOs, though, have been negative.

What kinds of interactions are you having that they are all negative?

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: jo harker

 Quote: scott garrett

Seems like anything less that full compliance with the gestaopo gets you one charge or another these days. ....

Having family who lived through WWII in Nazi Germany and who were against Hitler, worked with the underground, were imprisoned for it and eventually killed, I find it highly offensive to have our law enforcement referred to as Gestapo.

I do understand the fear and worry of having a police state where the "peace officers" can do what they will, believe me, but the USA isn't that place yet. Individuals get the news and the majority get the blame and bad name....kinda like some young teens and twentys in the 60's, and 70's, and 80's, and etc. Do you understand?

You do offend people on this board by using this term ...

Yes, I see it as offensive, too, and I am not even LE.

Having spent time in my late teens/early 20s as an activist/say fairly left leanings, and having worked with activists from across the Americas (i.e., countries not nearly as free as the US or Canada):

That citizens of the US are free to call the (or some) police 'fascists' or the 'gestapo' shows just how far from fascist the US is as a country politically and in it's legal system.

I have always found it a great failing of western activists and leftists to invoke that sort of imagery when referencing the US, politically or law enforcemently (I know, not a word).

It is one of the great strengths of the US that dialogue of that sort exists freely, though I can understand how that level of hyperbole is offensive.

Speaking as someone who is not a minority and who comes from a relatively privileged background, any 'negative' interactions I have had with law enforcement were ones I entered with eyes open. I have, unfortunately, other interactions with law enforcement and while I'm Canadian, not American, I was struck by how incredibly aware and sensitive the police were; they turned what I expected to be a traumatic experience into a relatively non-traumatic one, being both human and professional. I'm not saying bad things don't happen when power imbalances exist, just simply going off on a tangent, I suppose

To deny that there are those in law enforcement that do not exemplify the ideals of law enforcement would be foolish. We have our bad apples. One must remember, law enforcement gets it's people from the same labor pool as everyone else. It's been my experience, no one wants the "bad cop" booted any more than the vast majority of us that do the job correctly.

What amazes me are statements alluding to numerous bad interactions with law enforcment. In actuality a very small number of citizens actually have single encounters, let alone a poor encounter. For an individual to have multiple bad interactions, perhaps the problem does not lie within law enforcement. Ahh, but then we get into the accepting responsibility thing and I know that's not politically correct any longer.

DFrost

Scott,

You made a blanket statement about cops initially,.. Back peddling and then saying that only certain officers were "Gestapo Like" is a , pardon the pun...cop out. I'll take your first statement as what you truly feel.

Here's what I truly feel....if most of your contact with the police is negative then you are either guilty of what you're suspected of doing, or a dick head with a big mouth. Either way, it's no surprise that your contact with the cops is negative.

Regular citizens floating through life and doing their thing very rarely have negative contact with the police.

David, you posted while I was typing. Seems we think alike eh?

Yep. All my experiences w/LE have been bad. Tickets every time. If a cop even looks at me, I'm getting at least one ticket. Perhaps it has something to do with my sugary demeanor. One did laugh one time when I asked him to be quick about writing that ticket since I was obviously in a hurry...

The worst was very late one night trying to get home and getting stuck in one of those damn drunk traps. That Officer Lepic was such a Gestapo. Stuck his head right in my car and said "Good evening Caleb." Didn't even say hi to ME.

Just wanted to add a little levity to this thread...

Imagine...acknowledging a dog first...

Scott stated :

" I find it really funny that one of my drummer buddies is an LEO and instead of getting upset he actually apologizes for the bad seeds. He'll say, "man, Scott, I'm really sorry that you've had so many negative experiences and wish there was something I could do." The vast majority of my interactions with LEOs, though, have been negative. I will call cops who act like fascists, "gestapo". Then, I'll thank LEOs who treat me like the professionals they should be. "



Maybe that's because you've made it clear to your buddy there is a distinction between him and the " bad seeds " . You offered us no such thing in your statement here in this discussion . You just made a very general statement . There used to be a day when the 4th Amendment meant something is VERY general . Unlike your gestapo comment where you now say you were making a distinction between bad cops and professionals , it's hard to take your statement about 4th Amendment rights as being nothing but negative to all Law Enforcement Officers .

For me the peoples' rights are sacred (my family , friends and I count on them )and the 4th Amendment is very important to me and the Officers I know . It still does mean something for I am part of the community not an occupier . Your rights are my rights and just as important to me .

I could make a very general statement about lets say, " rock musicians" being "alcoholic drug addicts who steal from their family and friends" since that's the majority of the types of contacts I've had with them .

But I realize the type of job I have doesn't bring me into contact with the majority of "rock musicians " who I believe to be good people . They don't call 911 to introduce themselves and have a good talk . I usually only get calls when something goes wrong .

As a matter of fact the last good experiance I had with a very popular rock band , where we talked some repo guys out of taking their tour bus and they thanked us , turned bad when they were nice enough to do the old " F*#@ the cops ! " to the fans during the show . I realized it was part of the act but it was still disappointing .

Scott , if the majority of your experiances are negative involving us I ask you to take a good look at yourself in those situations and see if you might help play a part in it . My brother had the same experiances as you . After I became a Police Officer and he learned more about my job he realized he played a big part in those situations becoming negative .

Just like the other LEO's here have stated , I'm not saying there aren't bad cops out there but please try to realize that most are regular people doing the best they can in difficult job .

Scott stated ;

" I feel no need to further defend myself or my statement. "

I feel otherwise it was very disrespectful and that's my right to feel that way .

 Quote: jenni williams

The worst was very late one night trying to get home and getting stuck in one of those damn drunk traps. That Officer Lepic was such a Gestapo. Stuck his head right in my car and said "Good evening Caleb." Didn't even say hi to ME.

Just wanted to add a little levity to this thread...

Just wait til Officer Lepic reads that post!

To add some further levity, I was pulled over coming back from a backpacking trip with Teagan, who was secured in the back seat.

All was fine when the police officer was outside of the car, but the second he leaned in, she LOST it. Was doing her best to get up to the front and just freaking out. I was sooo embarrassed, and as I was admonishing her (she doens't have a 'no bark' command b/c she's not a vocal dog), I distinctly heard the police officer go 'Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!'

....I didn't get a ticket. Toby says it's because I'm a girl but I think it's because of Teagan

As for the OP's original question

" just a hypothetical question, on some other forums there are complaints that a particular agency is abusing K9 alerts and randomly searching vehicles detaining people for hours. As a private citizen if I'm told the K9 alerted on my car and assuming I'm not a criminal what are my rights? Can I ask the LEO what the K9 alerted for? What are they looking for? Refuse and insist on a warrant? Can I ask for a second sniff? I realize if they want to search my car they are going to and it would be incredibly stupid to resist. I guess I can say "no you can't" and then get out of their way. Any insight from LEOs and lawyers would be much appreciated. "


Once again a statement was made about bad cops (abusing K9 alerts , random searches , etc.) . Then it moved into what to do if stopped by LEO's in general . Dennis I'm familiar with you from other discussions and don't think you meant anything by it but a distinction should be made in my opinion .

If you're stopped by a good cop you have nothing to worry about .

The other LEO's here have given the best information so far . I will only add that if you are stopped and feel the LEO is acting inappropriately make it clear you aren't giving permission for a search but I don't reccommmend physical interfereing with the search . This includes (IMO) getting out and locking the car doors . If the Officers does happen to legally have enough to search the vehicle this maybe seen as interfering and you could be arrested . Watch them carefully get their names and make a complaint later . Don't let your emotions get the best of you and have it effect your behavior . If you behave badly it will only cloud your complaint and effect your crediblity later .

I'm surprised the question wasn't asked ; " What can I do about this agency abusing K9 alerts , randomly searching vehicles and detaining people for hours ? " .

 Quote: jim nash

As for the OP's original question


I'm surprised the question wasn't asked ; " What can I do about this agency abusing K9 alerts , randomly searching vehicles and detaining people for hours ? " .

that would be closer to what I want to know, as a private citizen what can I(we) do about a particular agency misusing K9 searches?