I'm sorry Lamarr, I think they were both partially replying to you and I at the same time.

I've seen people swing their dogs by an Orbee, so it's not that they can't be gripped hard. I really think your pup's issue is just confidence with this particular toy/prey item since she'll hold onto everything else. Mind over matter kind of thing. That's why I suggested letting her win it fairly easily. At this point she probably expects to lose it and might not be actually trying to win it. Just throwing ideas out there.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Oh, about the tug winning & dominance thing....,I don't think that is an issue. I would only say the tug playing with a very mouthy puppy will encourage the nipping & maybe you shouldn't do that if you don't want to encourge that in a 'pet'. I believe most dogs like to play tug. It is not breed oriented. I had a toy poodle & a collie years ago that LOVED to play tug. Pack structure addresses dominance not playing tug. Read some of Ed's articles about pack structure & dominance issues for some info on that.

It's not playing tug in and of itself that I've heard can cause dominance issues, it's the dog always winning. I've heard this over ten years and have even seen Ed say this in one of the ebooks or possibly a video...I just got home from rehearsal and my brain's a bit fried. If I'm wrong, I'd surely like to be set straight here.

Sorry, Lamarr & Scott...getting confusing trying to reply to more then one person in one reply.

Larmarr, If the dog can't grasp & hold the orbee it may be too large for the dogs mouth. Just another thought. He may just NOT like that particular ball if there is no issue with any other toy. Just use what works. The point is to use a toy to build drive. At least that is what I think you are trying to do. If that is the case, just use what works for the dog. They don't all like balls (of any kind) on a string. Or in some cases not balls very much at all. My female preferred a tug(for drive work) or another small hoop toy(for fetch) for years. She really didn't develope a real love of balls until after I had my 2nd male. But as I said she will work for anything I have in my hand to play with. She just preferred the other toys. Some people use kongs on a string, if it is a STRINGED item that you are after. I find that any ball is slippery with a dog that gets a sloppy mouth. Funny that I find the males that I have had have had more slimmy mouths then my female. Maybe just a coincidence.

Scott, the tug & dominance thing ...I was referring to your answer to Sharon about playing tug causing dominance. Since, basically, the toys are mine & I allow my dogs to play with them, I don't see how many times I let them win causes any dominance issues?? My dogs basically live on the 'NILF' way of life. Dominance problems are usually pack structue issues, not how many times I let my dog win the tug issues.

What Anne said. lol

I see what you're saying there, Anne. That's also why I'm saying "can" and not "will". If you don't have that kind of pack structure in place, and most pet owners don't, letting your dog win at tug all the time can lead to the same kind of dominance issues as letting your dog sleep on the bed with you. Not every dog who sleeps on the bed is going to turn into a raging monster but, that does happen quite often. Most pet owners don't want to follow the NILF way of owning dogs because it's either too much work compared to just letting the dog do what it wants or because they think it's cruel. If the tugging brings out dominance in a dog I'd tend to look at changing that activity by not allowing the dog to win.

Scott, I agree. Not all dogs have it in them to be dominant no matter what the owner does or does not do. Others will certainly take advantage if & when the opportunity presents itself.

Ah, groovy. We're on the same page.

That's strange. My dog Harley does the same thing! He has a great grip, but for some reason he does not want to hold onto this ball.

I give up on the Orbee ball Lamarr. 3 dogs won't play with them in any way. They all love a piece of rubber hose though. Goofy.

I have since put the orbee ball on the shelf and has been collecting dust since. My girl still is unable to grip it. Granted she hasn't grown since I started this thread, but I know for a fact that her bite is the strongest it has ever been now.

Now Steve, how did you get your dogs onto the actual hose? Is it a cut piece of garden hose? I doubt I will ever use it, but still good to know. My girl is water obsessed but hasn't put two and two together with a hose and water. The biggest problem with this is I have Gardeners at my house at least 5 days a week and I can only imagine how she would act when she saw a hose producing water.

-Lamarr

Lamarr,

First and foremost you must learn to read your dog. If the dog is not real succesfull with the ball (meaning grip) then don't use it. At such a young age that dog is still learning so many other things that you need to use what works. Right now your teaching so much more than just grip, like targeting, drive, teaching full mouth grip etc... You don't teach these things seperately, you teach them all together at the same time. If your allowing the dog to bite the string then you need to learn how to play in a way that you don't teach the dog bad targeting habits. The dog is very smart and if you give it a chance to grab that toy it'll do it any way it can.
In reading your dog you don't want to play to long. This is where it is incumbent upon your abilities to read your dog and stop at just the right time so you don't deplete drive but build it for the next session.
I personally haven't had a dog that I have used the orbee with for any length of time because of it's lack of hardness. If you teach that dog to bite on a soft toy it tends to lend to munching on the ball. That is not what you should be teaching. I will start with a softer ball at first and then progress to something harder.
Somebody mentioned I think in a previous post: When training with a ball you are teaching grip but that is not necessarily the primary objective. It is hard to grip a ball because of the way it fits in the mouth. It is very hard to get any teeth in it.