Quote: Tamara Tholl

... as soon as he sees a dog all bets are off. He lunges and barks wanting to get over to it ...

Is your trainer talking to you about desensitizing work?

Yah, we tried it a bit last time we were there as his dogs are bomb proof and didn't react to my insane dog (he is very typical in that he gets even more wound up if the other dog is barking back at him)...that is why we are going back on the 12 for another round as well we are bringing Athena so he can see their dynamics together as Bandit really doesn't involve herself with the pups...she really is the old girl of the group.

He is such a great family pet that we are willing to work with him, if he wasn't it actually would be easier to deal with but he is the best of the three with the kids.

Woah! How is your trainer doing desensitization. Or is it flooding?

You can't just "try it a bit" for it to work. It is a long process and needs to be worked on diligently. But it will give excellent results if you do so. But flooding, though faster if it works, often doesn't work or does not give long lasting results.

I know I've posted a detailed advice on desensitization within the recent past. If you can't find it with a search on the key word, "desensitization", I will rewrite it. I'm afraid I can't remember the thread heading.

 Quote: joy van veen

Woah! How is your trainer doing desensitization. Or is it flooding?

You can't just "try it a bit" for it to work. It is a long process and needs to be worked on diligently. But it will give excellent results if you do so. But flooding, though faster if it works, often doesn't work or does not give long lasting results.

I know I've posted a detailed advice on desensitization within the recent past. If you can't find it with a search on the key word, "desensitization", I will rewrite it. I'm afraid I can't remember the thread heading.

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=18&Number=255058&Searchpage=1&Main=24541&Words=desensitization+Joy+van+Veen&topic=0&Search=true#Post255058

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=18&Number=256932&Searchpage=1&Main=24726&Words=desensitization+Joy+van+Veen&topic=0&Search=true#Post256932

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=257074&Searchpage=1&Main=24741&Words=desensitization+Joy+van+Veen&topic=0&Search=true#Post257074

Also see

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/251684/page/0/fpart/1

and

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/251684/page/0/fpart/2


for a very detailed protocol. (The thread goes off topic, but the first three pages are detailed success stories.)


As mentioned by Joy, desensitizing in not something to "try a bit." But you'll understand if you read the links.

Sorry "a bit" meant at the end of the session after trying him with the head collar we had his dog quietly stand at one end of his laneway and slowly moved him closer to Diesel, stopping and backing up when Diesel reacted. Every time we calmed Diesel down and rewarded him with affection (he wouldn't take any treats at this time) when he looked away from Roper and ignored him. Then Roper would come a few steps closer and if no reaction again reward Diesel, and so on. But because we worked earlier since it was our first session with this trainer mostly on getting him to move in the head collar and how to "reprogram" Nolan and myself to the new methods and how to properly reposition Diesel into the sit so you are jerking him around...we probably worked with Roper for about 30 mins.

Unfortunately we don't know many people with dogs that will just sit/stand quietly while we work with Diesel and the couple we do it has been hard to coordinate the time. That is one of the reasons we are going back to the trainer on the 12th, to work with his dog at de-sensitizing again and as I mentioned for the trainer to see how Athena and Diesel interact and if we are missing something that could be agravating the situation. Diesel was the typical great with all dogs until 15ish months and then it changed....like I said I don't think his intention is to maime but he acts so retardedly that we can't be around other dogs and I worry that he may injure another dog so we are very careful with him.

I will read the links provided and again am so glad I was sent to this forum for info because all the rest have been so negative.

 Quote: Tamara Tholl

how to properly reposition Diesel into the sit so you are jerking him around...we probably worked with Roper for about 30 mins.

I meant NOT jerking him around. LOL

I find it better to start with training in a quiet place without other dogs. After the dog responds reliably there, to move to a place that he can see a dog or dogs at a distance. Work outside of his reactive zone, not just stand there. Use the ob as a redirect, and reward and praise appropriately. Gradually shorten the distance. If someone with a dog begins to approach too near, or you misjudge the dogs reactive zone, walk away and regain control. Then return to a point outside the reactive zone. This zone will decrease as you reinforce his ob lessons under the stress of working near other dogs, as long as you don't increase the stress too much too quick by expecting him to work to close. Eventually you will be able to walk passed a dog on a normal size sidewalk, or have your dog on a sit stay while another passes inches by.

I do not like head collars. I have posted on their dangers in previous threads. (You might do a search under head collars to read about them in more detail.) But regardless of whether you think they are safe or harsh, using one will mask whether the dog is actually trained. They are for restraining. A dog might behave well in one, but when they are removed, go right back to the old behavior. You will think the dog is trained, when he has only been restrained.

I would advise that you get a training collar. There are several types available. Prong collars and slip collars are the most common. With a dog aggressive dog, I wouldn't recommend a martingale, as you would probably not have enough corrective power.

Thanks for the info. I agree on the head collar but this is the first thing that has worked to get Diesel to refocus on us not the other dog, I want to eventually move past it because I also believe it is a "bandaid" solution. We continue to work on OB with his other collar as well so he doesn't just get worked in one. Diesel current reactive zone is a soon as he hears(barking or collar jingling)/sees the other dogs so it is pretty large zone!

Another stupid question for you - how does the slip collar differ from the martingale? Do they not both "squeeze/choke" when a correction is given? Our GSD uses a choke chain but we were told that are "bad for necks" so that is why we went to the martingale.

Dear Tamara: I have three dogs. Ed's dvd on pack structure has been a life saver for me and I view it many times. I do try and be consistent with what I expect from my dogs each day. Sometimes I don't feel well and would like to just let things go but I have found it doesn't pay off in the long run. I have three terriors, rescues, who are full of energy. They do not lay around the house and only sleep when I put them in their crates for a nap. Here is how our day goes.
Get up, earlier than they do and do the things I want to do in the morning. I get up really early 5 so I wait until 7 to get my dogs up. I take one dog out at about 6:30 and we go for a brisk walk. The others are sleeping. I open each of their crates and greet them individually and then head to the back door to let them out. I make them wait until I tell them they can go out. I find this is very important in our house and sets the tone for the day. I let them run around for awhile, then bring them in for breakfast. I use this time to practice the recall. As they come charging in and come through the door they stop, sit and get a treat.
After breakfast I let them play and what they really like is when I go out in the back yard and run with them. They think this is the best. When I let them out, again, they must wait until I release them. After a while, one will come to the door, I bring that one in and run them through their games (we call it, but it is training). Then put that one out and get another and go through the same thing individually. When they are all done, they all come in and we practice racing to our mats together. They take their naps at about 12:00 till 3:00. I take one of the dogs out for a walk while the others sleep. And I take the final dog out in the evening at about 7:00. When each dog is done walking I brush them.
When I feed them they must sit and wait. I learned all this on this web site and it has been the best advise I have gotten. I ahve a dog who acts agressive when he sees other dogs, I do not believe in dog parks so that is out, but I do take him where he can see other dogs but can't interact. I reward him and have taught him to watch me when something distracting comes along. Sometimes he does better than others.
I have been confused on what to do many times. Sometimes I have found I am too impatient and just need to continue and make sure I am consistent. Rarely I have changed my approach, but only after I am sure my dogs are not getting it. I give them time to figure it out.
Don't give up, Ed's videos are very helpful and so are his books on line. I pray God's blessings be upon your family and training. Its hard when one of your dogs can be agressive toward one of the others, or to dogs you encounter outside the home. That is wonderful they are good around your kids.
I have found that I need to really expose my dogs to distractions-once they know what is expected, to help them learn the behaviors I expect of them. I have had to back track sometimes and have learned recently to not do so much training until the dogs connect with me. So, I have worked on that and it was amazing the results I got.