Quote: betty waldron

 Quote:

And Will, if the understanding of recognizing protective behavior I learned at The Seeing Eye is wrong; then there have been thousands of people putting their lives in the hands of Seeing Eye Dogs for the past 80 yrs, as well as the current 1,800 working Seeing Eye teams; that shouldn't. Is it just coincidence that not a single person teamed with a Seeing Eye dog during that time has been hit by a car. If so, that is an amazing coincidence.

Bold emphasis is mine.

Joy, I haven't read all of your posts so if this is out of context accept my apology.

The bold part is the problem here. Normally on a working dog forum when you talk about protection you are talking about personal protection from an assualt/threat from a person.

Manipulating traffic is not what most working dog people would consider a protective instinct or trait.

I can see where that has been what most here are expecting when they hear the word "protection". The strange part is that I don't believe the majority of dogs spoken of on this forum aere working vs sport dogs. I am a working dog trainer, as guide dogs are definitely working dogs. But since I don't compete in a sport with the dogs, both my training and the dog's job is belittle. Yet if I never trained a working dog in my life, and the dogs I trained never had a job; they and I could be praised for being involved in "working" if I competed in a sport.

It is pretty strange when a "working dog forum" is antagonistic to working dogs and their training.

You are completely mis-reading the problem.

No Joy,
I, as well as others here understood perfectly what you were saying.

Now, about my original question?

 Quote: will rambeau

 Quote: joy van veen

I have been asked to start a new thread for my responses to a question on another thread.

Hmmmm, despite a huge, very difficult to read original post here, I didn't see anyone in the previous thread ask for you to start a new thread, could you direct me to that quote, please?
Sorry if I missed it in the previous 6 pages from that thread.
Thanks!

Anne Jones posted this on page 5 of the original thread:
"...it woud be best that you use a new thread about that topic. "

 Quote: connie sutherland

I read this as a question:

So the school weeds out all but the smartest most balanced handler sensive dogs, then they train them to negotiate the hazards of the modern human world with as few commands as possible, I got that right so far?

I didn't think it was a serious question, but I woyuld be glad to answer.

Yes, in part.

This part is a yes. "So the school weeds out all but the smartest most balanced handler sensive dogs, then they train them to negotiate the hazards of the modern human world" But the "with as few commands as possible," is not quite right. The dogs are not taught to negatiate the hazards on command. When the dog goes to their blind or autistic partner who has spatial disorientation, the partner won't be able to know of the hazard to command the dog. The dog is taught to take the initiative and make independent decisions. (Those dogs who will take advantage of that, are also weeded out during the stage of training where the trainer wears a blindfold while working the dog for weeks.)

Steve,

I left myself an out by starting with "I'm not sure what "protection" always means. What does it mean to the handler? What does it mean to the dog?"

You are right. One time in her life Brenda reacted to what we think she interpreted to be a threat to my dad. Never did before, never did since. Hans will react to situations he doesn't like, so I think he'd object loudly to someone getting aggressive with my wife, but I have no way of knowing for sure and I'm not about to test it. But absolutely, in neither case, Brenda's actual or Hans hypothetical, is anything happening under the direction of a handler. The dog is making it's own decision for whatever reason and that is not dependable.

Though I do know that every morning at 6:30 AM a neighbor is going to walk his dog past my house and Hans will make sure everyone under my roof is awake and aware. That I can depend on

By the way, the scenario you describe, the dog biting it's handler when he's down, sounds like American sports casters. They always go with whatever team is winning. Could it be that police K9's are allowed to watch too much ESPN?

Nobody is belittling anyone.

They just don't want you giving advice on personal protection dogs. Protection being from an attack by a human being. That is where this all went south.

There has just been a lot of conflicting info coming from your direction lately. Maybe it IS better to concede sometimes.

There. No need for a new thread. I fixed it.