William,

It kind of sounds like you have plenty of distractions right there in your front yard. Why don't you utilize them and begin some distration training on a long lead?

Not being able to really see what happened it sounds like your dog could be chasing and biting out of insecurity. Work him at a distance from those distractions and then gradually get closer to them.

Thanks Mike:

I mention those as possible distractions. They don't happen all day long and it is getting very cold here in NY.

However your suggestion is part of the plan I am working on.

I have been doing a lot of reading and it looks like it would be called "prey aggression" basically going after anything that moves. It is more prevalent in herding breeds.

He also runs after any wildlife in the backyard which sort of backs up the theory.

William, you say you haven't heard from anyone who uses an E fence...well...a few of us have told you specifically WHY we don't use them. Our dogs laugh at them.

As far as the one "mother of all commands," I use STOP. Stop means just that-whatever you're doing, stop dead in your tracks. I taught it to mine early on in case of dangerous situations where "hier" wasn't good enough. I have used it several times. However, you can't teach this any differently than you can teach any of the other commands he disobeys, so unfortunately, you're still stuck w/the options of containing or training....

William, all your posts sound like tons of excuses about why the dog doesn't listen, why you can't train the dog to listen,(too cold now in NY, too many distraction for the dog to listen to you, too much prey aggression (prey drive?) the dog might 'accidentaly' get out the door & get to someone.....Yada, yada, yada. You now want an electric fence to do the training work for you or an e-collar. If you want to keep the dog you need to either train it &/or contain it. (more excuses why this can't be done or might not work, won't be reliable) Many of us have told you what you need to do to 'manage' this dog. It is your responsibility to do so or rehome the dog if you can't or don't want to do it. My female has very very high drives....and she 'learned' to obey under extreme distractions by the age of 1 1/2yr old, she is 6 now.. It can be done. You just need to put in the time & effort. It takes alot of time & commitment teach this type & level of obedience. It doesn't happen by itself. I hope that you make the right decision, the one that's in the best interest of the dog.

ETA.... my dogs will chase anything that comes in my fenced yard....squirels, snakes, chipmunks etc. Most creatures have learned to stay out of my yard when the dogs are out. This is just normal dog behavior, not just herding dog behavior.

I wanted to add that my training for all my dogs has all been done motovationaly with markers (with food & toys)& very minimal corrections on proofing (way way down the road.) With motovational training you don't need many physical corrections. My dog never received any corrections other than verbal until she was almost 1 1/2 yr. old. She never wore an e-collar until she was 2 yr old.

It can be done William, with time, consistancey & commitment.

William,
Managing, training, and caring for your dog are the big 3 for any dog. All these in the context of what it takes to build a good relationship. The higher drive dog you have the more intense and the better you must be at all of these acquired skills.

Hi William:

I'm new here, have been reading for a while but never felt I had anything to add to the expert advise people get here. You did ask for personal experiences with the electric fence though.

I have a pack - Landseer Newfoundland, German Shepherd, Siberian Husky and a Malamute. There's also a Lab/Rottie cross that spends a lot of time here-aAll boys and very prey driven. They were all very mindful of my regular fence (5 ft with the exception of 3 ft abutting neighbors - it was already there and the boys were fine with it) until my Malmute learned that his legs were long enough to spring over it. I tried corrections with the e-collar but it was difficult to catch him at it as he generally did this when we were at work. So yes, went down and purchased a electric fence (I wish I would have read the information on this site first).

Did the training, put on the e-collar on and sparked up the fence....well, I should have had a movie camera going. There is only one setting to the stimulation and he thought this was a new play mate. He'd run up to the fence, get zapped, do a little dance and right back at it. These fences may work on your short haired, smaller breeds (beagles, jack russels, etc) but my 130 lb, 10 month old malamute just thanked me for the entertainment. Couldn't wait to get the collar on (partly marker training), he would jump out over the fence and yes, back in again.

Needless to say, steel, wire and wood are your most reliable option. We are now completely fenced with 6 ft chain link.

Please think twice before putting all your eggs into the electric basket. I have the fence if you really want to try it but I would recommend against it.

I aint no xspurt, just a fat guy with some dogs

PS

Don't feel silly starting this command from 6 feet away. I don't!*

Set him up for success by being the only show in town. Get the connection made in his mind between your recall and his good times and great treats.



*A very experienced member here, Bob Scott, taught me this. Start close. Distance is factored in just as gradually as distraction.