Well, the dog won't be a tiny puppy the other winters, of course, but that doesn't mean I disagree in any way with getting puppy coats and boots if necessary and the snowsuit and boots and umbrella and shovel and maybe roofed spot and whatever else you can do (including porch and garage), because again, I really don't wish on anyone (or any dog!) the experience of teaching the dog to go indoors and then having to re-teach the whole thing.

If you really have to for the dog's sake, I certainly won't say not to, but to do it because we are cold rather than because of Melissa's legitimate tiny-puppy-with-short-hair concerns is just not what dog ownership is about to me. JMO.

"Suck it up" says it well.

 Quote: lynn cheffins

Buy( or make) a coat for the pup and get a bit of straw to put on the ground outside - easier on the puppies feet and holds a scent reminder of where to "go" - think of it as an outdoor pee-pad.

I had never read or heard this about straw, and it sounds brilliant!

But Lynn, you are a sought-after sewer of dog equipment; a dog coat I made would have to be held on with ropes or tape.

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

 Quote: Tracy Collins

It would never, ever get too cold for me to willingly allow a dog to pee in my house.

It's going to be cold again next winter too...and every winter thereafter for this pup's life. Outdoors is the place for pee and poop no matter where you live. IMO.

I completely agree with this - one of the many reasons I don't have a cat!

~Natalya

My cat is potty trained to go outside it the same thing to get them go go where you want

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Well, the dog won't be a tiny puppy the other winters, of course, but that doesn't mean I disagree in any way with getting puppy coats and boots if necessary and the snowsuit and boots and umbrella and shovel and maybe roofed spot and whatever else you can do (including porch and garage), because again, I really don't wish on anyone (or any dog!) the experience of teaching the dog to go indoors and then having to re-teach the whole thing.

I'm just wanting to make sure it's emphasized as well that reteaching isn't impossible, it's just more work. I worry that someone later would stumble across this who is having trouble housebreaking a new rescue, a dog who developed a bad habit, or something and makes the assumption that it can't be done. It can be.

So I guess this also begs the question about what is too cold for safety. I've only had to deal with a hypothermic dog once, it's not fun.
http://www.dogtopics.com/163/hypothermia-and-frostbite-in-dogs/

 Quote: Melissa Thom

... I'm just wanting to make sure it's emphasized as well that reteaching isn't impossible, it's just more work. I worry that someone later would stumble across this who is having trouble housebreaking a new rescue, a dog who developed a bad habit, or something and makes the assumption that it can't be done. It can be.

So I guess this also begs the question about what is too cold for safety. I've only had to deal with a hypothermic dog once, it's not fun.
http://www.dogtopics.com/163/hypothermia-and-frostbite-in-dogs/

Good points!

Absolutely correct about the retraining. I have done it a few times with adopted adults who had been forced to potty indoors, and yes, of course I did do it. You're right: we can all do it.

I'd rather not, however, and the decision to teach the dog to go indoors would have to be made the way you said: because of the dog. I wouldn't do it because I was worried about me being cold.

I think we are saying the same thing from different sides.

Thank you for that timely link, too.

my last 3 pups were all winter pups (i think i may be a masochist), and while it does "bite" to have to take them out in the middle of the night during a frickin' blizzard, we all got thru it ok and with housebroken dogs.

but they were/are all GSD pups with a haircoat. getting a coat/booties for a tiny short-haired pup, having everything handy to the door, and lynn's straw idea (BRILLIANT), plus consistency, should do the trick for you.

crating, IMO, is essential; pups shouldn't run around the house unsupervised or you'll have a dog that eliminates whenever/wherever the urge occurs. the crate gives you control IF it's not too large, over the "when/where" issue. good luck! you'll do fine.

That straw idea does indeed strike me as brilliant too.

Protection from snow, "odor memory" ... just brilliant.

I went to the straw when the previous to this one winter puppy just about turned himself inside out trying to "aim his load" on the last teeny, shrinking patch of snow in the yard - he had never seen grass yet and didn't know you were allowed to "go" on it. It worked well with last years winter puppy as I think it is more grass-like.
Dogs can really get used to going on a certain surface - I like to make sure it is not lino or carpet!

If your really worried about cold Go out for five minutes. If the puppy does not go go back in for 15 then try again that way you don't have to worry about hypothermia.

Although you would have to a a puppy even outside longer then ten minutes for then to get hypothermia.

They will earn in a matter of days that going outside normally means pee even if you have to push them going out to the point that they are going to have to go right then.

You still have to time it right

If we're talking about hypothermia it's a matter of physics, not a generic statement of minutes. My 60 lb lab can on a warm winter day can spend about full exposure 10 minutes solid swimming in Puget Sound (which is very cold) before she starts to give me the tell tale shivers that we're done for the day. My 4-8lb papillons hit the water and they're shaking almost immediately, I'm sure they would be lethargic within minutes, and stone cold dead within a half hour. If I were swept out into the Sound treading water the normal time frame in winter before hypothermic as a 160 lb human being is about 15 minutes, unconscious in about 30 minutes and dead within 45 minutes according to my coast guard buddy.

Now I say this because while water does wick away heat much much faster than air we are still speaking of extreme temperatures and a very small animal. Size and insulation matters both on the ability to withstand the stress of a cold climate and how much time before your temp drops to a level where you can't warm up again on your own. So yes, if you're small enough even exposure is enough to cause shock if you're not insulated. So I love the coat idea, I also love the straw idea, but if you find that you open the door and can't make it to the yard without your puppy shaking it's too much, wait a week for your pup to get bigger or get a puppy coat if they'll wear it and walk.