The question was have you ever owned or tried to rehab a fearful dog. I'm just wondering if you're repeating info you've read or if you've done this type of training.

I got a nerve bag, just wired that way, I used Positive Re enforcement only and socialization in small increments. He's mellowed quite a bit and will tolerate vet handling. I learned a lot about stress in dogs from him. Wouldn't want to do that again.

Nah,
I've never read anything either.

The point in fact Al is the Mal in this thread. Not whether or not I've ever dealt with a nervy or fearful dog.
If you read the thread you'll find the dog seems to be only nervy in some very narrow defined situations that the present keeper has pretty well figured out.
That the dog strikes out to some strange handler trying to hold the dog in a stressful scenerio doesn't cut any ice with me one way or the other, it isn't unheard of nor would I consider it an issue inless I needed the dog to accept handling by another. Otherwise I don't expect my dogs to listen to anyone else and if violence is the result it wouldn't be a surprise.

As you've decided this dog has a generic fault, fine.
Myself, a couple others and the present handler have questions about just what the root of the problems are.
Okay?

And to answer your question directly Al.
Yes, whatever I have to say about dogs and or training comes from first hand experience.
And you?
Have you ever producted a functional dog out of a basket case? Or do you just throw them away.

eta,
"The greater the artist, the greater the doubt. Perfect confidence is granted to the less talented as a consolation prize."

Some of us (including myself) have indeed worked successfully with basket cases whose fear was other than genetic.

Having seen sad genetic fearfulness can make it hard to even assess, never mind want to work with, fearful dogs.

But genetics is not the only cause. Abuse, learned fear, lack of socialization, etc., are causes that aren't necessarily combined with genetics at all.

'But genetics is not the only cause. Abuse, learned fear, lack of socialization, etc., are causes that aren't necessarily combined with genetics at all.'
end quote.

Outside of genetics the dog is a marvalously resilent animal.

I vote for seeing how far the dog can go.
Sorry to the op'er, I don't have any fresh ideas for you.

It is interesting that this topic has come up. I have a dog, Terra who is very fearful. Anything you carry in your hand, anything, causes her to leave the room. I call her to me with the object in my hand and reward her when she comes. Once she is with me, she is fine.
She also exhibited fear tonight when one of my other dogs pumped into her. Tonight my Cody (jack russel mix male 2years old) accidently bumped into her as he ran toward the door, she cried, (it was barely a touch) my other dog Bindi went to her to find out what happened, she usually comforts her. Terra was so scared, she growled at Bindi and was about to snap when I corrected her. As my dogs sat at the back door to go out, Terra wouldn't sit with them. She decided to sit in the bathroom (it is next to the back door). When I released them to go outside, she ran out of the bathroom and joined them. They are all in the back yard now, doing just fine.

How can I help her? She is very, very gentle and a sweet girl, but I can see that fear is giving her a short fuse. she has never tried to snap at us or anything like that, but you can see the fear in her eyes, if someone ever pushed her beyond where she felt safe, she would protect herself. We have no info on her background, the rescue organization we got her from doesn't know anything, they got her from the pound.

Your input greatly appreciated. Sharon

Connie could you please say more about genetics? Are y'all saying some dogs are genetically prone to being fearful?

How would you evaluate a dog to decide whether the fear was nature or nurture? If training mellows the dog out and it gets past its fearful behavior, would that mean that it might have been a non genetic event?

Lucille great question, can't wait to hear the responses.

It is my understanding that dogs breed by a dog(s) that are nervy, fearful, aggressive have the potential then to be nervy themselves and that you can work/train them to perform but that it is hardwired, meaning it will always be a challenge for the dog and the trainer. Their offspring has potential to display that trait as well. The environmental stimuli can either either improve or worsen the genetic characteristic. It is what they will display as a default under stress, etc. reagrdless of lots of positive environment stimuli.

I'm not sure you can determine in an adult with unknown history if it is genetic or learned response.

Interested to hear what others with more expiernce on the topic can clarify about this....

 Quote: Sharon Empson

It is interesting that this topic has come up. I have a dog, Terra who is very fearful. Anything you carry in your hand, anything, causes her to leave the room. I call her to me with the object in my hand and reward her when she comes. Once she is with me, she is fine.
She also exhibited fear tonight when one of my other dogs pumped into her. Tonight my Cody (jack russel mix male 2years old) accidently bumped into her as he ran toward the door, she cried, (it was barely a touch) my other dog Bindi went to her to find out what happened, she usually comforts her. Terra was so scared, she growled at Bindi and was about to snap when I corrected her. As my dogs sat at the back door to go out, Terra wouldn't sit with them. She decided to sit in the bathroom (it is next to the back door). When I released them to go outside, she ran out of the bathroom and joined them. They are all in the back yard now, doing just fine.

How can I help her? She is very, very gentle and a sweet girl, but I can see that fear is giving her a short fuse. she has never tried to snap at us or anything like that, but you can see the fear in her eyes, if someone ever pushed her beyond where she felt safe, she would protect herself. We have no info on her background, the rescue organization we got her from doesn't know anything, they got her from the pound.

Your input greatly appreciated. Sharon

Mod note: Sharon, this is a hijack of Joshua's thread on the 2-year-old Mal.

You could copy and paste it into a new thread. Thanks.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (08/15/2010 11:05 AM)
Edit reason: note to poster

Randy said: .... the dog seems to be only nervy in some very narrow defined situations that the present keeper has pretty well figured out.

CJ said about another dog: This dog has no natural environmental triggers - no fear of thunder, loves playing in the rain, is coming around to people as they are being introduced, no dog aggression, is not whining or hectic, making steady progress and appears to be predictable under somewhat stressful circumstances (other than the isolated incident of handler aggression and the fearful reaction to clapping).

Both of these observations would carry a lot of weight with me.

A new thread specifically about evaluating fearfulness might be good. This might be something of a hijack in this thread, even though the topic is rehabbing an individual fearful dog.

Thanks. We don't want Joshua to lose his topic here.