Ok, guys, everyone back to their respective cornors & take it all down a notch or two & try again.

You can't wrap your dogs or your kids if cotton batting & expect them to 'experience' life. SH#T happens, no matter how carefull you are. I would not have disallowed by son from riding his bike or skateboard or climbing on the jungle gym etc because he MIGHT get hurt ( & did seriously, but still did these things) any more then I would worry about my dogs if I throw a ball in the woods or let them retrieve a ball in the water at the beach. One uses descretion & doesn't throw the ball out onto a 6 lane highway or allow one's child to play in traffic. Beyond that, you need to enjoy your life & do things that are fun for all. JMO

Thanks, Anne. FWIW, I make it a point to never "turn things up a notch" on message boards, because it is easy to mistake someone's intent when reading the typed word.

From my vantage point, I saw Ana suggesting that I "do without the gadgets" so I tried to explain what a great tool the spring pole has been for me. After other posters agreed, she proceeded to point out every issue I am having with a dog that doesn't even belong to me and build a strawman defense (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man). I am working with a sometimes unruly pup of my mother's (who has never seen a spring pole); therefore the value of the spring pole as an exercise tool is diminished.

I had no intention of this thread going this direction and at no point have wanted to start nor fuel a fight. My question was simply how can some dogs shut down pain when in "go" mode. I gave the examples of my dog ignoring pain while working, yet yelps at a light correction. I have owned dogs all my life but never had one as high drive as Rose, and I am on this message board to learn and better understand the minds of working dogs. Having Rose has piqued my interest in training far beyond where it had ever been. I'd be thrilled for this thread to return to the topic at hand.

 Quote: chip bridges

I had no intention of this thread going this direction ... I am on this message board to learn and better understand the minds of working dogs...I'd be thrilled for this thread to return to the topic at hand.

Chip, this happens all the time on forums. There is no way to control the direction of "discussions" without over-moderating, and I'm very happy the good Mods of Leerburg let us just hash things out, within reason.

I have a standard welcome to new folks on the one other forum to which I belong: Welcome aboard, get a helmet, strap it on, and take NOTHING personally!

I think you've done a good job avoiding getting defensive. You can only defend a rational position so many times before you just have to assume that we all come from different backgrounds and have different agendas.

Diversity of opinions, in an area like raising, training, and managing dogs (and kids) will always exist. Without them, these 'discussion' boards would be pretty boring places, I guess.

You've found a method of engagement that works for you and your dogs. You don't have to defend that against anyone.

Chip, let's get our story straight:

 Quote: chip bridges

... If there were even the first biting/aggression issue, I wouldn't be willing to even bring my mother's dog into my home... And there has never been an issue. Give me "not yet" all you want, but I know my dogs better than anyone else...

You already had 2 dog fights between your 2 females AND biting issues with the pup:

 Quote: Chip Bridges from http://www.pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=114996

Then the first fight occurred... Rose bit her ... I started whupping on her head with my open hand. She was not letting go! I finally stuck a broom handle under her neck and applied pressure until she let go to get a better bite and got them apart.... took about a week before it happened again... This time I had a friend over to help and a breaking stick nearby, but Rose punctured her pretty good... I've seen a lot of dogfights... male APBT puppy which Rose takes tons of abuse from, then finally puts him in his place with teeth and noise. ...there is no doubt in my mind she would have killed her either time had I not intervened ...I fear it has the potential to happen again. I get such mixed signals from the animals! As I type this, they are growling and playing with a rope toy...

Why are you dragging stuff onto this board from other websites that has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand? Can we keep on topic and be civil? The need to be right isn't the most important thing concerning this topic. If you have a personal beef with Chip over mixed messages why not take it to PM?

There is nothing wrong with a springpole assuming it's built correctly, just like there is nothing wrong with dock diving, ball chasing, treadmills, frisbee chasing, hunting, and digging. We take our chances with what we consider to be acceptable risks. For each and every one of us that can be a different measure, and as a result for some of us incidents can and do happen despite the best of intentions. You watch them,learn from them, and move on either with a resolution to not do said thing again, make a modification, or accept it as part of the risks. Life would be dull without risk taking.

Personally I think pain tolerance and prey drive are something biological in dogs and a great many predators. It makes sense considering the risks they take with tackling animals much bigger than themselves. It make sense just like flight in prey animals can result in some amazing pain tolerance examples.

Tell ya what, Ana. I'll sit down and pull up a chair if ya want. I remember when you joined this message board, and there's lots I could data mine from, too. Or we can just keep it to the topic at hand, pain and working dogs. You pick.

My original thought of a dog that "yelps" to something viewed as insignificant r/t to pain was either a startle reflex or expression of dislike for what was done or going to be done, maybe both.

 Quote: aimee pochron

My original thought of a dog that "yelps" to something viewed as insignificant r/t to pain was either a startle reflex or expression of dislike for what was done or going to be done, maybe both.

Ha - on the other end of the pain spectrum - we have two little dogs that yelp in case something MIGHT hurt.

The Italian Greyhound is renowned for the "iggie death scream" which is a reaction to something really serious, such as the leash getting wrapped around one of their legs. Oy vay. Now, I will say, our IG is relentless when on the chase, and has more than once torn the skin on his front legs on a boulder in the yard. So with him, there is a night and day difference in pain tolerance depending on whether he's calm or "in drive."

I, too, have a dog (2 actually) that can run headfirst at full chase speed into a tree without so much as blinking. Step a little too close to one's tail, however, and he'll let out a yelp that'll make your hair stand on end ... just in case

The other will sometimes screech when he's eyeing my cat or up to something else naughty and I give him a Cesar Milan style touch (as in "I'm watching your foolish butt, just so ya know"). I equate this to when you're watching a scary movie and the music gets creepier and creepier ... then "boo!", the scary dude jumps out and everyone screams. It seems to be the anticipation of getting the correction that makes Porter yelp in these situations.

Kobi yelps whenever we're doing something he doesn't like, and I swear sometimes it's just for the fun of it. Just add a little drive to either of them and you won't hear a sound (except for the excited yelping and whining, that is

My dad had an American Bulldog and a Jack Russell terrier. Very weird combo. Anyways, there were occasions when the dogs played tug together. Sometimes the terrier would "miss" the tug and grab the bulldog's face. He could care less. The bulldog would drag the terrier around the yard, dangling from his jowls like some weird tug game. He loved it. He'd shake her off eventually and then go back for round 2. you would think it would be uncomfortable to have a small dog dangling from your cheeks, but he never got hurt or even yipped. My dad was alarmed and hid the tug from the dogs because it obviously wasn't a good game idea for them, but every once in a while the tug would resurface and they'd get right back in the game.

Bizarre.