Quote: Lauren Jeffery

She's 16 months old;. I'll change the sig pic so not to add confusion

Wow, is she beautiful! What took you so long!

Aww. Thanks.

She is a pretty girl. Sometimes I think she knows it

Yeah, Wendy.
At 16 months I'm not willing to put up with a lot of crap. By then the dogs know what I'm demanding.
Whether or not they hear me though through the noise in their head is really the issue.

Coming out of the closet so to speak, I don't particularly like the look at me command and like the op never have had any luck(?) using it. Look at me always seemed more bribery than anything else. Besides, I like my dogs being aware of what is going on around rather than watching me. 'It's okay, leave it' should suffice for anything they find threatening.

At 16 months, I'd probably start teaching the lesson by walking up beside the dog, act interested and say 'good boy, it's okay' and walk away calmly. If he didn't calm down and follow me to relax. The command 'enough!' comes out. If that doesn't do it, time to bring the leash out. And then if that doesn't do it, the pinch. And then the dog stays on both until the dog learns to listen through the noise in his head.

I really don't care if the dog looks at me or not. He must though listen.

 Quote: randy allen

Coming out of the closet so to speak, I don't particularly like the look at me command and like the op never have had any luck(?) using it. Look at me always seemed more bribery than anything else. Besides, I like my dogs being aware of what is going on around rather than watching me. 'It's okay, leave it' should suffice for anything they find threatening.

I know that breed generalizations are generally frowned upon, but I'm curious about something. Do you think that a solid "watch me" command may be a little harder to train into a GSD?

Since they are bred to be so intensely aware of the environment it would make sense to me that in a situation that is already stressful to the dog asking them to focus their gaze on something else might be really hard for them.

 Quote: randy allen

At 16 months, I'd probably start teaching the lesson by walking up beside the dog, act interested and say 'good boy, it's okay' and walk away calmly. If he didn't calm down and follow me to relax. The command 'enough!' comes out. If that doesn't do it, time to bring the leash out. And then if that doesn't do it, the pinch. And then the dog stays on both until the dog learns to listen through the noise in his head.

That's how I handle her if we are out for walks. Walking up directly beside a dog doesn't work out well yet, though. With the exception of one dog in the neighborhood (a husky that stares her down) this works out really well if the dog is across the street.

I watch her and if the tail stays down I praise a lot. If the tail starts to go up I just ignore it, keep walking and correct any turning to stare. It usually doesn't take more than a light pop. As soon as she is back with me I praise.

Would you just take a sink or swim approach to being closer, Randy? How would you work it out?

I think Randy means when she is barking on the porch, walk up and see what she's carrying on about?

I'd agree with Randy on this. I think 'look at me' is limited in application. On a walk, run or ski, I don't need the dog to look at me, then stop and focus and get a treat. It takes too long, it's annoying, it interupts the walk, and it attributes more significance to seeing another dog. I don't have super high drive, aggressive dogs but I do/did have some issues with leash aggression from my shepherd- lunging and alert. I won't tolerate that, but I also don't want to stop, have her look at me, and get a treat/praise every single time we see a dog. What works for my dogs won't work for everyone, but I've found a pro-active 'on-by' to work really well, the timing must be perfect, and the dog must be taught the meaning of the command in low-stress situations prior to trying it around other dogs. As we approach the dog, about a second or two (hard to describe) before passing I say 'on-by'. I expect and require the dog to continue forward without veering toward the other dog. They know the dog is there, but they need to ignore it. Even the little yappers. Once we're by the dog I say 'good dogs, nice work, atta boy!' but don't pet or praise my dogs. Part of this is skijor training (stopping to treat isn't an option in a race), but part of it is because I don't want to have to stop everytime we meet a dog on a walk.
For lunging on a deck that's a little different, as you don't have the distraction of forward motion, but I think a 'leave it' type command should do the trick. Watch me is a great command, just not sure appropriate to the situation?

 Quote: randy allen

'It's okay, leave it' should suffice for anything they find threatening.

I've always used "leave it" for yucky on the ground stuff. I'm going to start using it for more things. I sometimes let things get too complicated. Thanks, Randy.

I'd like to clarify on my previous post that I expect engagement on the walks and I don't really stop the walk to have the dog look at me... I used that for porch work/desensitization and engagement - ground work, really.

Look at me is mainly a formal ob thing, but there are times I like to use it in everyday life. There are times I don't trust others to control their dog, so I like to stay off to the side with mine looking at me till they pass. I just find it easier knowing there will be no eye contact when the other dog may be aggressing or really,really challenging.

What I could have mentioned and maybe I should have, is that I'm a lot more patient with my dogs then my last post may have implied.
For instance the long hair in my sig pic, she is just a bit over 4 years, high over the top prey and reactive to other dogs coming up to smell her butt. She still wears an e-collar at over 4 years old.
However, she's getting better at listening and I could have put her into avoidance on prey a long time ago, but consciously decided not to for a couple of reasons I won't go into in this thread. Suffice to say I think patience is a virtue.

Lauren,
There are many here who have had really good results with the 'watch me' command and I'm not real sure it should be dismissed out of hand without forethought.
That said, I think out walking in the real world is problematic at best and something that requires long term work, because just when you think you're making progress a loose dog will spoil weeks of training, and you're back to square one.
But I don't really care and think it's perfectly natural if the dog wants to keep track of where it's perceived threat is as long as one: it isn't having a fit. Two: it isn't on a formal heel. And three: it's keeping track of where he is in relation to me without bumping or rubbing up against me do to so (mmm, they can't stare too long and accomplish keeping track of me).
My dogs get admonished for anything outside those boundaries.

And just when you're making ahead way.......a loose dog will spoil it for you.

 Quote: randy allen

And just when you're making ahead way.......a loose dog will spoil it for you.

Ain't that the truth!

I like your way of looking at it, Randy. It seems a lot of trainers out there are into using avoidance corrections as a quick fix for pretty much anything.

I don't want my dog to be avoidant, I just want her to not act like a butthead!

Time and patience is the way.