We've pretty much covered the thread going awry.

Anyone want to go into more detail about the training and/or the off-site training?

Some helpful suggestions?

"Didn't mean to piss in his wheaties. But ... how will you maintain what someone else teaches your dog & you don't even have that training bond ... "

That training bond -- good point -- is far more than some out-there notion. JMO.

I'll always be open to (and will solicit) help where I need it, and if I needed to, I'd rely heavily on someone who knew what they were doing while I observed and practiced. But for me, all this requires my presence and my attention.

I know Willie, I was also thinking of you & Aaron,& a few others when I posted above. I haven't been posting as much lately either. I posted here,mostly, because he was talking about working the dog in defense.

 Quote: anne jones

Didn't mean to piss in his wheaties. But still stand on what I said. You don't send a dog out for training & you don't work a dog, especially a young one, in defense. If you can't even train a recall

It doesn't take 25 pages to say "you don't work a dog, especially a young one, in defense". It is also less likely to piss off new people than "If you don't have the time to train your dog, you don't have the time to own a dog. Please rehome." Lets just choke out the new guy right off the bat.

And I don't see where the OP said he could not train a recall, he mentioned "off leash", and the race was on.

The OP is not the only one reading our replies, I'm sure there are other people who need the same information the experienced trainers and dog owners could offer. If you don't want to take the time to give a helpful answer then don't just start handing out insults.

Ed's answer was helpful, and what the OP asked for, and he managed to do it in one very short post, not 25 pages.

When someone asks questions they might really be looking for answers, it does not automatically mean they are an idiot. Ask some questions before you assume the worst.

Chill out people.

Take a lesson from your dog training, give the new people a chance to learn the good stuff before you start handing out the level 10 corrections.

Deleted...not worth bothering to get into it.

So, Debbie, can you offer some 'pearls of wisdom' to the OP.

I have had two friends opt for a board and train program for their dogs. One was for some sort of bird hunting stuff for his lab. And the other one was for obedience for a pretty high maintenance GSD. I would never do that for the reasons stated - I believe in the bonding aspects of training with my dog. I frankly don't know how they maintain the skills or if they even care beyond the conversational status that they have a so and so trained dog, but I do know that the dogs are no worse for it. The dogs are well behaved and actually pretty sweet.

The trainer that I took Maggie to, also has a board and train program. They were always working the dogs when I went over for my lessons. Some people used it like doggie day-care (which could be a whole 'nother thread). I guess the difference is that I could go home and practice the training advice peppered with what I was learning from this forum. The other dogs were just learning and the owners were not...

ETA: that doesn't necessarily make it bad, but if you feel as an owner you don't have time, or you are at an impasse with your dog, then why not drop him off for some expert intervention. Isn't that like military school for difficult children?

I don't know any trainers in N. California. But I've heard from a very knowledgeable source (Ed) that Michael Ellis would be the person to see.

If I was wanting to train my dog in an area where I didn't have the expertise I would probably pay a good trainer to give me and my dog private lessons or join a good training club. If I didn't know of a good trainer/club in my area I would ask around and hope someone could point me in the right direction.

If I sent my dog away to a good trainer the dog will perform for me only as well as my level of expertise will demand.

 Quote: anne jones

I guess that some of the responces are kind of a 'knee jerk' reaction brought on of late by the numerous folks that have come on here & taken up a great deal of time & effort on the part of some of us to try to help.

It's called n00b flaming and no forum is immune to it.

The guy that made the rehoming comment also made a comment recently to the effect of "I almost killed the dog in my signature by feeding him such-and-such."

I don't recall anyone telling him to re-home his dog. And I can imagine that if anyone did, the smackdown would have been swift. Group dynamics/pecking order always at work.

Mmm, nope. I did.

Sending a dog who lacks prey drive, to a board-and-train trainer and telling them "I want a bark and hold" is setting the dog up to be abused by said trainer.

The OP was given good advice, and instead declared that he was too busy to do the right thing, and wanted the easy way.
The easy way is going to cause his dog immense suffering.

Sorry, I care more about dogs, than owners.

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

 Quote: Anne Jones

Mike Ellis has his dog training school just south of you. Why not look into taking a class of his.

Most of us would kill to live close enough to M. Ellis to benefit from his skill. You need look no farther. Have a great time training your dog!!

Well, I'm gonna stand by my input... I WOULD love to live close enough to Michael Ellis to use his expertise, period. I've come to realize that I prefer to train my dog myself because it is through this process that I'm learning so much about myself, my dog, and developing our bond. It has NOT been easy for me due to my lack of experience in really good training techniques, but we are getting there and I'm becoming more confident and Falcon is growing into a great dog - because he is teaching ME. I've made mistakes. But nothing which was cruel or damaging to my dog, just the types of mistakes which showed my lack of knowledge and set us back.

What I've learned which I feel is making me a better trainer, I've learned from this site, the people on this forum, and from the information provided by Ed and Michael.

Are there advantages to sending a dog to someone like M.E. or his folks to train.... I can only imagine there are. (May I say duhhhh?) Are you going to miss out on many of the lessons you would have learned by working with M.E. and your dog yourself? Absolutely.

If I needed to send my dog away for training and could do so with Michael Ellis, I would have NO fear of getting anything but a well trained, happy dog in return.

Best of luck in your decision Dave. I regret that you didn't get the support and answers you were seeking, early on.

Can someone send me the link to Michael Ellis's Board and Train program?