Kristen,
I just wanted to add that my dog sounds a lot like yours. Mine is a 35lb. mutt that will take any correction and still want to eat the other dog. It's not a matter of physical strength or knowing how to issue a proper prong collar correction. Some dogs are just harder. I turned to the positive stuff because correcting the crap out of her was not working, and in fact, was having the opposite effect that I wanted. It seemed to be making her want to eat the other dog even more. Before I could even make a dent in her behavior, I had to find a way to get through to her, and the clicker stuff, for her, was that way. I'm not saying it's the only way; obviously there are several different approaches to handling this type of problem. It's just what has worked for me.

Kristen,To be very honest..I have no idea what a clicker is.I am only assuming it is used as a conditioning agentand to gain attention of your dog.In your case followed by a treat..would be a praise.I am also assuming that a clicker followed by a discipline measure would be the direct opposite of conditioning...on a certain level.What you had said about the "experiences" in the park..has a direct play into what you are dealing with now.It does not matter that you have a mixed breed dog.I would recommend to you to look at the genetic basis of the cross you have...to better understand their heritage/purpose...drives.All breeds are different.The majority of recognized breeds stem from a cross or two with another breed.I would also recommend to you to have as much eye contact as possible with your dog without the clicker or treats...outside of your home. "If you have the eye of your dog...freely..you have communication and within that you have control" Candace

I also know people that have had excellent results using a clicker the way Lisa Swanston laid it out. Course this does take more time to re-condition and get your dog to associate good things with 'strange' dogs. Rather than using the harsher corrections and e-collars as punishment when you set your dog up to mis-behave so you can 'teach' it to do better.

Clicker training is based on setting your dog up to succeed, rather than to fail so you can correct and THEN train. It makes the dog learn to think, become an active participant in the learning, and then be set up and rewarded for SUCCESS. Since alot of learning takes time, I again must say this is not a quick fix, but works extremely well in many situations.

Here are some sites to read up on so you can make an educated decision on what may work best in your situation.

http://clickertraining.com/training/dogs/clicktocalm/?loaditem=0407_calm_preview&itemnumber=4

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/#problem

VanCamp, the only other dog owner that can/is willing to help me is the trainer himself. Gypsy has met all of my family's and friends' dogs already, and none of them "have the time" to help me out. So I'm limited in that respect. The trainer had mentioned using the clicker like I said earlier, but I think he's more like you in that respect.

No worries about "jumping into" the e-collar. I've had them for a couple of years (I tried some of the cheaper brands first - not advisable because they're crap), and my most recent one is a good one (a Dogtra 200NCP). As I mentioned earlier, though, like what Lisa said, any type of correction or simple tightening of the leash only makes her behavior worse when it comes to other dogs. A 60 pound dog that is in peak physical condition due to good food, and daily walks and hiking while carrying her own pack is a lot more difficult to handle than a 35 pound dog (which is what Lisa described her dog as). I'm 120 pounds, but she's twice as strong as I am. That's the only reason I considered the clicker/positive reinforcement methods. So far, we haven't used the clicker during actual training sessions -- I've just been randomly clicking and treating so she *knows* that a treat follows the clicking sound.

At this point in her training, we're still only doing point-to-point heeling (in a straight line with right about-turns), but she's doing sits and downs in motion, returning to heel, and come-fore. She's doing much better than I ever expected. The problems I was having at first with keeping her attention while heeling are all but dissolved now. She does look forward occasionally, but for the most part, her head is up and her eyes are on me while heeling. She does the right about-turns well, but still lags just a little sometimes. I'm not correcting her for being a little slow on the turns, but I am correcting her for lagging otherwise. For the first week and a half, I only worked her on the flat collar to help build her enthusiasm; now I'm working her on the prong and she's still doing well.

This Saturday, we will be going to the dog park to work her with dogs in the distance. We won't be introducing anything new as far as her obedience goes, but she will be expected to not forget what she has learned thus far, even with the distraction of those other dogs in the distance.

Kristen,

Has your dog worked through low level distractions yet? Such as food on the ground, kids playing, light to heavy foot traffic, loud noises, etc? I ask because even though your ultimate goal is to ignore other dogs, it is obedience under distraction that is your method to teach it. If she follows through with obedience under low to middle level distractions, then great, she's ready! Also, it keeps the intensity of the compulsion to a minimum and saving it for when you really need it.

Also, just make sure that there are no off leash dogs anywhere near your dog. The 'he just wanted to say hi' stuff can set your dog back months!

I used the same method that Robert used, except I used hot dogs and gripped it tightly so that she had to work to get it out of my hand. Something about not being able to get the whole treat right away makes them forget all about the other dog (who is just sitting there drooling, and saying 'wait a minute, I am the good dog and she gets the treat? what the...) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

btw, what happened to the first poster, with the beagle(?)

 Quote:

Has your dog worked through low level distractions yet? Such as food on the ground, kids playing, light to heavy foot traffic, loud noises, etc?

Also, just make sure that there are no off leash dogs anywhere near your dog. The 'he just wanted to say hi' stuff can set your dog back months!

Yes, I would say she has worked through low level distractions, because we are forced to practice on the road. Well, when I say road, I mean the drive that comes into the trailer park (I can't wait to move into my new house in a few weeks! It's a HOUSE). You turn off the main road onto this short, straight, 'drive', which dead ends at my trailer. There are only 4 or 5 trailers on each side of the 'drive'. When I practice with her, we do it out there.

So far, she has done just fine with me dropping treats on the ground (accidentally), cars pulling in, the dogs across the main road barking (she's used to them so she doesn't pay them a whole lot of attention), kids playing, the neighbors yelling at each other :rolleyes: , high winds blowing leaves and crap all over her, and things like that.


Off leash dogs are rampant where I live. You don't have to tell me about them setting us back months. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> That's why I've stuck to just working with her right there in front of the house, and I haven't been taking her for walks or letting her go outside before I check to make sure there are no dogs out there. At the dog park, the dogs MUST be leashed except for in the fenced off-leash area, and because the trainer is going to be there with me, I'm not worried about off-leash dogs approaching us there.

Micheal, In Ref to your statement "No wonder why this is happening..This isn't a stable dog w/stable temperment..genetically flawed breeding". First of all let me say that I am happy that Kristen is pursuing every avenue that is available to her to raise and love and teach the mixed breed she has. There are so many pups that do not have "Papers"..that need a home.On the opposite end..there are so many pups being created that have "Papers" and the breeders have no idea about genetics..."Puppy Farms"...It just snow balls after that..for many breeds..sales upon sales...and within that no one seeking knowledge of the breed as long as they have "Papers"...so they can sell........... Now lets say..someone has 5,000 to spend on what would be a "Genetically Correct" puppy..and that person has no idea about drives/enviroment..etc and then they spend 10,000 in training to someone that is an accomplished trainer.The dog comes home and the owner is told that the dog is "Worthless"...genetically flawed somehow.The owner sends the dog out to a different trainer..the result of which the dog becomes a World Sieger...or is the top dog at Westminister.What if that owner had listened to the first trainer?There are many levels/layers in training...no matter what breed..or even a mixed breed. Genetics play a great part..but the owner/trainer has to have an eye for the dog.. and consider and work with everything that is within that dog...given the enviroment the dog lives in and is around. There are alot of "pop-up" trainers..I hope in Kristens instance with her dog..This trainer will see the layers of her dog and she can learn and her dog as well. Van Camp Robert, I agree with the "Feeding" of your aggressive female to focus on you..by hand.How long have you had her? Candace

Candace, step back and take a moment to pry your foot out of your mouth. You made many dangerous and uninformed ASSumptions that some newbies do. Sit back and learn for a while.

Papers do not equal quality! A dog can have good breeding/genetics without having papers, and vice versa.

I don't have anything against the clicker, I've just found that it isn't as effective in this situation.


Melissa made a great point, small distractions at first are better than large ones. Dogs being the large ones for this critter.LOL Train through the small ones and then work on the large ones.


I'd worry about going anywhere where there is the possibility of free roaming dogs and their idiot owners.

There goes the "age-old dilemma".... To be or to not be.. Actually... to "click" or to not "click"..

One.. You could "click train" motivationally for dog aggression but eventually the dog is going to get tired of "motivation" and do what it wants..

Two.. You could put a simple solution in the dog's head (black and white).. U go after that dog, youre gonna see God.. You dont go after that dog, youre gonna see reward like youve never seen before (Id act hysterically with HIGH voice praising the dog until he pees, or poops)......

Eventually with the "clicker" method, you will HAVE to add compulsion to proof the dog. There is NO WAY AROUND IT. Dont kid yourself. Your dog is training YOU, not the other way around.'


just my opinion.. AGAIN..