I have been hit with a dog wearing a muzzle and have to say I prefer it over a bite... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This dog is not doing protection work. I would not worry about the muzzle hurting someone but do agree that the dog should definitely be on leash and under very close watch when working on the aggression.

It's not at all unusual for dogs to perceive men as being more threatening than women. They are physically larger and have deeper voices. Also if a dog belongs to a woman, a dog may sense that the woman becomes more tense when approached by a strange man. On the other hand if a dog belongs to a man, the man is unlikely to get nervous when approached by an unknown woman. Therefore the chances of a dog reacting more strongly to unknown men are higher than a dog reacting aggressively towards an unknown woman.

muzzling may work in certain situations, although to be honest I think she would freak out if I put a muzzle on her. This dog is fragile and insecure, I honestly don't think she is aggressive because shes a mean killing machine. I think the cause is because she's scared and feels shes protecting herself and her owner. In regards to the ownership advice, she is owned by both myself and my husband so she has both the female owner and the male owner. I thank you for the under the chin as opposed to top of the head advice, I never realized that the top of the head was a threatening place to pet a dog, I will have company pet her under the chin from now on.

The pat on the head thing is a dominance issue.
Since she is already skittish, a stranger trying to "dominate" her, may just push her over the edge. Once she realizes that your brother is not going to kill you or her, she will probably be okay with the head pat. The thing to try and work on is getting the fear out of her and you can do that with socialization and training. By controlling her environment and how people act and react with her you can bring her along. The thing you have to be most careful about though is children. Children are an unknown quantity to a dog, and a dog that already has fear aggression issues is apt to be set off by a child.

I suggest you read through and learn all the dominant signs/verbiage that dogs communicate with.
While your dog is most likely not dominating, if you inadvertently are telling her that she is dominant (or are sending her mixed messages) you will make a skittish dog worse. In human terms it is the equivalent of forcing someone into a leadership role when that person is not emotionally equipped to be in charge (or telling them they are in charge and then in the next minute telling them that they are not in charge and then in the next minute back to being in charge again, the inconsistency and worry about being in charge drives them nuts)

If you can consistently show her what her place in the pack is, she should feel a lot more comfortable. Following the ‘Nothing In Life Is Free Program’ does a very good job of doing that. I also suggest you read this article

http://www.leerburg.com/dominac2.htm

But again, based on the way you describe your dog, I think "non pack" members should approach her in a non-dominating non-threatening manner. After she figures out your brother is not dangerous, its probably okay for you to teach her where your brother stands in the pack.

If you are considering a muzzle don't let the fact that you think she is too "fragile & insecure" stop you. If you properly train a dog to a muzzle is not stressful at all. In fact in most cases the dog will learn to like the muzzle being put on because they associate it with positive things.

I always get the same response when I suggest muzzling dogs - "my dog isn't THAT aggressive". I am not suggesting that your dog is a killing machine. What I am suggesting is that you are not a dog trainer and probably won't pick up on her pre-bite warnings and that your reflexes may not be those of a cat. The muzzle is a temporary safety measure to protect your guests from being bitten and you and your dog from getting yourselves into trouble.

In our attempt to socialize Winnie we took her to the park to day in hopes to encounter some situations in which we could work to train her on her growling. We found that she not only shows signs of aggression in the home but in public as well. We were on a path avoiding other people within stricking distance. We came across a playground with children playing on swings (over 100 feet away mind you, I would NEVER let a child pet her knowing her aggressive tendencies) as we came closer I heard Winnie make a small growling noise. I immediatly tried the distracting of behavior suggested on the website. I had her sit and used a soft soothing voice in order to calm her then rewarded her for the obedience in sitting. After the distraction of the bad behavior and the commanding of the good behavior we walked closer to the playground still staying far enough away so she could not come near anyone in harms way. After the corrected behavior I never heard another peep out of her, no closed mouth, perked ears, or aggressive stance. This correction and avoidance of bad to good behavior seemed to work really well, still not well enough where I'd want to introduce her to someone on the trail, but after months of continuing this I may be able to trust her with a muzzle on introducing her to people at least. Any comments on this training tool... good or bad I'd love your info.

I may sound a little harsh on this one, but I think you really only have 3 SAFE options. From the latest description, I would not trust her around children or strangers. If you want her to exist in the kind of environment that you appear to (the one she is not comfortable in) then I think you really need to seek out a professional trainer. Un-teaching a dog something (and overcoming 'nerves') is not easy for anyone, as problematic as she sounds I think you run some serious risk trying to address the problem yourself.

The second option is to only keep her in the environment she is comfortable in, and just settle for not having an "all around" family dog.

The third option, which I know you are not interested in, is returning her to the shelter. It is one of the interesting facts of the shelter business that 50% of adult dogs in shelters came from shelters.

In any case, just be very careful with her, not just for her sake, but also for your own liability and especially for the safety of 'strangers'.

i must confess that i have not read word for word every post in this thread, because it has gotten quite lenghthy already. thomas hinted at something very critical early on...."depends on what you want the dog to do and what it has been bred to do..." i used my edit button to see if the words "hunt" or "hunting" appeared anywhere in this thread. nope. not even once. if i understand correctly, it seems you have 3 "hunting" dogs: a german shorthair, a lab and a weimaraner. i can tell you from my own experience and i'm sure others can back me up, that if a dog is not doing what it is bred to do, you will have an unhappy dog on your hands. discontentment and boredom can manifest itself in many ways. some dogs become destructive or noisy, some hyper, some lazy, etc. the way i see it, the best thing you can do for your problem dog is to put it to work doing that which it was intended for and literally wear her out. a happy and contented dog will come home and crash for hours, then be ready to do it all over again. i have the task of getting us home safely after training. all three dogs are sprawled out in their crates; eddy on his back - feet up in the air, snoring and my hubby, the "sleeping co-pilot" also snoring. i can tell you i have had to slap myself many a time to stay awake and crank up some awful radio station to keep myself irritated enough to make it home. i just think a lot can be said for a good dose of fresh air, a productive training session and a feeling of satisfaction. (as well as 1.5 hr. drive home)

Patricia you are right in the fact that I have not mentioned hunting, we do not hunt any of our three hunting dogs. Our GSP was brought to the shelter because he is gunshy and the person who bought him bought him to hunt. Our Lab is also gun shy and we have not even tried with Winnie as we've had her such a short period of time. I did speak to the shelter about returning her.. however they informed me she would be put down because of the bite, even though it was more a nip and didn't break skin, I don't have the heart to put her down. Thomas I know I can trust her with children and I realize she will never be the family dog our other two dogs are. When taking her hiking we avoid others at all cost for our own liability. I am still in pursuit of a trainer, the closest one I have found is over 2 hours away.. but its worth it if it helps. I guess I will just have to live with the fact that I can't share her with the world and that she is going to have to be a homebody.

even though the dogs are gun shy, they are still hunting dogs. they still possess the same drives, but they lack the "nerves" to be able to deal with those drives. folks with gsds and some other breeds sometimes run into the same problem. the dog may have sufficient prey, defense or fight drive, but if they have serious "nerve issues" they most likely will not be suitable for work or sport. and there again, some of the owners have experienced the same things as you have encountered. by taking on "rescue dogs" you greatly increase your chances of getting dogs with issues. i still say these dogs need some kind of activity; an outlet. maybe if you'd take your problem to one of the hunting/gundog boards those folks could better direct you toward some kind of activity for your dogs and perhaps some training for the sort of problems you are experiencing. good luck.