I looked up more about Microlax. It's both an osmotic and a mild stimulant, so it helps soften the stool and provides a little of the peristaltic stimulation that your husband was thinking of with coffee.

I also read that the stimulant is mild, which is why a second application isn't usually contraindicated. (If it was a strong stimulant, then cramping pain could result from a second application.)

I read that one drop pressed out first will facilitate insertion.

Yeah! A great start to what might be a long night but this is wonderful news.

The box came with an insert that is only in Estonian, and from what I can tell, it doesn't say anything about a 2nd application. The pdf file I found on the internet in English didn't say anything either. I'm glad you found it!

My husband and I were just talking - who knows how long that compaction has been in her. I wondered, too, if the antibiotics had something to do with this. I asked the vet and he didn't seem to think so, but since she went from soft greenish stools on the antibiotics to suddenly mustardy colored firm stools without, I just assumed it was her body overcompensating. I knew it would get back to normal eventually, but like you said, she's had her gut in quite a bit of uproar for awhile.

One thing Star does if she feels she's not getting attention, (it's a pattern we've noticed - if we are playing a game and laughing and having fun and she's not a part, etc.) she'll go and hump the pillows in her bed. For about a week before this all happened, whenever she would hump she would use so much force a little bit of poop would come out. One night pudding came out and I had to throw everything in the wash. Again I assumed it was because of the antibiotics, but now I'm wondering if there was just so much in there that her using muscle force to hump caused anything close to the opening to just come out. Just speculation...

We gave her one more application at around 1:30am, and went for a walk around the block. She tried to go twice, and the second time just a small round plop about 1cm in diameter came out, but nothing to get excited about. When we got home at 2:00 she was so exhausted she went straight to bed. At least something started moving so we can ask the vet to continue on this regime perhaps for another day before doing anything drastic (surgery). I have an appointment for noon tomorrow but I may call him and ask him if it's okay to give her any more of these applications, and then I'll postpone our appointment until later in the day to see if we can keep this moving through her.

I am SO THANKFUL you said that about weight-bearing bones. I read that to my husband and he agreed. He said now that he thinks necks and softer bones would be fine, and I can continue to add fresh and raw foods (hearts, etc.) with it, but that from now on we would stay away from legs, leg quarters, and drumsticks. My heart was breaking to think that he wanted to put her back on dry food (she gets Orijen in the mornings which is a good food, but what a boring life to eat only dry foods morning and night!), so now after reading that to him, he was more willing to go back to some raw. (He's an all or nothing kind of guy - what you wrote helped him move back towards the middle). He also said to tell you thank you for all of the research you do and the wisdom you share.

It's 2:45 - I'm going to bed. I've been up since 6am and it's not been an easy day. Star is crashed out, so hopefully she'll sleep the night through and this last application I gave her will work in her body to soften her stool and we'll see good results in the morning!

"At least something started moving so we can ask the vet to continue on this regime perhaps for another day before doing anything drastic (surgery). I have an appointment for noon tomorrow but I may call him and ask him if it's okay to give her any more of these applications, and then I'll postpone our appointment until later in the day to see if we can keep this moving through her."

I betcha that now you have gotten her started, you and the vet will keep it movin' on out.

You did good!

Just want to add that poops are a great indicator of how the meat-to-bone ratio is going. Fine-tuning the amount of muscle meat added to the RMBs is made pretty simple by watching the poops.

Any time I see marbles (or even a log-type poop that appears to be a bunch of round poops, connected), I increase the muscle meat in the next meal.

Calcium is a poop-firmer. Calcium is a critical part of the dog's diet, but when the dog either gets more than about 900 mg per pound of meat (or maybe consumes less water or fat than usual), then adjusting that calcium:phosphorus ratio in the next meal and encouraging water intake can make an immediate correction. (Dogs on raw get lots more water in their food than dogs on kibble, but any time there's any doubt, a little room-temp water poured over the RMBs will get hoovered up just like the RMBs.)

 Quote: Brenda Mitchell

My heart was breaking to think that he wanted to put her back on dry food (she gets Orijen in the mornings which is a good food, but what a boring life to eat only dry foods morning and night!),

Brenda - wishing Star continued improvement in the next 24 hours so you can avoid surgery! Poor thing... what an uncomfortable situation for her... but SO glad you found an accommodating vet who took charge of this and put you on the right path to recovery.

I just want to point out the above info - are you saying that Star's normal diet is Orijen kibble every morning and raw food every evening? Orijen is a good kibble, and a correctly balanced raw diet is obviously wonderful for Star, but feeding a MIXED diet of kibble and raw together isn't usually recommended due to different rates of digestion between the two (separating them into distinct meals is DEFINITELY better than mixing them in one meal, but still...).

It sounds like there were a number of factors recently that could be linked to Star's recent troubles, but especially in a dog with a sensitive tummy, I might try to stick with one diet type.

Connie, any input on this?

~Natalya

 Quote: natalya zahn

.... Orijen is a good kibble, and a correctly balanced raw diet is obviously wonderful for Star, but feeding a MIXED diet of kibble and raw together isn't usually recommended due to different rates of digestion between the two (separating them into distinct meals is DEFINITELY better than mixing them in one meal, but still...).

It sounds like there were a number of factors recently that could be linked to Star's recent troubles, but especially in a dog with a sensitive tummy, I might try to stick with one diet type.

Connie, any input on this?

~Natalya

I agree 100%.

If I was bound and determined to feed both commercial and home-prepared raw, the commercial would be canned or dehydrated or frozen raw .... not kibble.

Everything you say about "separating them into distinct meals is DEFINITELY better than mixing them in one meal" is absolutely true, but I just don't recommend kibble and raw together.

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=10&Number=235774&Searchpage=1&Main=22932&Words=pathogens+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post235774

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=290531&Searchpage=1&Main=27092&Words=pathogens+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post290531

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=33&Number=248711&Searchpage=1&Main=23947&Words=kibble+Alyssa+Myracle&topic=0&Search=true#Post248711

(The only reason "pathogen" is bold in these links is because I used it as my search term.)

PS

http://leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm

Embark, Force, and Thrive with RMBs and meat (IMO) are terrific compromises when one wants to feed commercial and the other wants to feed raw, or when one just feels more comfortable with some commercial food, or when one wants to start a raw diet with a "bridge" between kibble and all-raw while raw is researched.

Only kibble presents that problem of the very slowed digestion rate; canned food, cooked food, and rehydrated THK-type foods all have rates of digestion similar to fresh raw food.

I'm not saying at all that a raw diet can't be well-balanced without some commercial help (far from it), but again, I think that fresh raw food is so important that whatever we need to do to make ourselves comfortable with it, is worth doing. JMHO. And in this case, it's apparent that one of the owners is less than 100% comfortable with raw.

Wow! I knew that I shouldn't mix kibble and raw in the same meal, but I didn't know that she shouldn't have them in her diet mixed. Living in Estonia we don't have any of those other commercial options that you mentioned, and my husband refuses to do 100% raw since we also don't have the variety here that there is in the States. She would be living on mostly chicken with a little bit of beef thrown in (hearts, livers, etc.), and we don't feel that that is balanced enough to be healthy. We have some supplements but not nearly what it talked about here. Since we know that Orijen is probably the best kibble out there, he has at least let me do the raw in the evening. If I tell him what both of you just said, he would say, "okay, no more raw, let's just do 100% Orijen". So in your opinion, would that be better to do all kibble with no raw foods at all, or to stick with Orijen in the mornings and raw in the evenings. I haven't read your links, yet, Connie, so maybe it is answered in those links.

I spoke with the doctor today and he said that since the Microlax is mostly a stool softener, it's okay to do several. This morning only a bit of clumpy liquid came out, so the doctor said to postpone our appointment until this afternoon, and give her some more oil, feed her just a tad, and give her another laxative and a walk. Then to bring her in for an enema later today. Watch her and walk her overnight, and if things don't get moving again he'll have to move to the next step tomorrow. First, anesthesia and massaging her stomach and intestines, and if that doesn't work, then surgery. So we have one more enema and one more night to see if things will start moving again. I was so excited about last night's small "victory" that it was a disappointment this morning to see nothing moving, but the vet said we'll try again once more. I really like this guy. He's checking on her energy level and how she's feeling constantly. He wants to watch that for signs of toxicity. He does understand what could happen if we wait too long, but he really wants to do all he can before having to do surgery.

I'll be back later!
Brenda