awesome articles thanks a ton! The one on cartrophen(tho some of it was over my head lol) Was just what I was looking for, I had read about the side affects that some dogs experienced but wanted more information.

So much great info, glad Im not the only one who does large amounts of research hahah. Was begining to feel a bit dorky spending my wknd nights on my laptop doing dog research instead of going out like normal people my age:0

so I did some research and have a few more questions......

With the SAMe, it says to take vit b12 and folic acid to prevent a toxic buildup of homocysteine...would this apply to dogs as well? Also side affects include racing heart,panic and anxiety, how would one know if their dog was experiencing such side affects?

With the tramadol it mentions not for use with liver disease or pancreatitis, so would buddy not be a candidate then? Also says it can cause serotonin syndrome.....how serious is this and what can be done to decrease the risk?

thanks

Hi Cat,

I don't think you need to worry about vit b12/folic acid supplementation for a dog on SAME. Whether there is homocysteine buildup in humans is arguable and I have never heard of racing heart and panic attacks as side effect. I haven't experienced them either, and I have been taking SAMe myself for the past two years (knee problem - SAMe also helps with arthritis, BTW). Connie is right about the volatility of the tablets and only buying them in blister packs, though. The tablets deteriorate fast when exposed to air, you must not cut or break them, and for best absorption you should give them on an empty stomach and at least 20 minutes before the dog eats.

I used SAME and milk thistle (plus ursodiol, which is a prescription drug) for over a year with dog with hepatic lymphoma and advanced cirrhosis, on the recommendation of the veterinary internist who was treating him. He eventually succumbed when the lymphoma metastasized, but we were able to keep his liver functioning normally right up to the end even through chemotherapy. I also gave SAMe for the last two years of his life to an old (14 years) dog with spondylosis and arthritis, and I saw a real improvement in his mobility. I don't know about mood improvement, though I know some people take SAMe for that. Maybe if the dog just feels better physically he would be less depressed?

Re tramadol: if there are liver issues, I absolutely would not use any drug that is contraindicated for liver disease. I would be cautious even about drugs that do not come with an official warning about liver problems. Most drugs are metabolized by the liver, and if liver function is already compromised you have to think carefully about the benefit of the drug vs. the stress it could cause to an already damaged liver.

Thanks Sarah, good to hear from someone who has actually taken SAMe themselves, I was considering taking it myself lol, just to see if it was ok, even though I dont have mood problems and certainly no arthritis haha. Good to know about the packaging, I never saw that mentioned anywhere in my research so Im really glad you guys mentioned it!!

I agree that Buddy would feel better if he could move, I am almost certain hes depressed b/c he cant, he loved his food and walks!

I was hesitant about taking anything that was hard on his liver, thanks for the reminder!

Thanks for all the info, you are very knowledgable! It has helped more than you know!!

hello all again:0 so I went to the vet and talked to him more about Buddy. He said the ultrasound would be on the abdomen and its to check for what might be causing his infection, said it could be cancer(I will have a breakdown if it is). He said it could be his teeth also causing the infection, but it is too risky at his age to put him under and remove it, which I agree with!

He said the next step is the ultrasound and if that doesn't show us anything(will be super fun to spend $400 for nothing)that a liver biopsy is the next step and that would tell us more. He has to get a special blood test first before the biopsy. We are taking him in this week for the blood test and for vet to check out teeth again.

I got his liver numbers: his ALP is 551 normal is10-150
his ALT is 107 (5-60)

for pancreas his amylase is 1334 normal is 322-905
spe cpl is 329(0-200)
hemoglobin is 129 (137-199)
His urine was 4+ which he said was too high in protien or something. could this be from the raw meat diet?

I have currently bin feeding him amore straight meat, low fat meats. It is a raw hormone and antibiotic free meat. I feed him 5 times a day.

Thanks for listening

Hi, Cat, rushing out, but did you read these about diet for pancreatitis?

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/pancreatitis/

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1580&aid=335

Maybe try to negotiate a lower price for the ultrasound, which is non-invasive and could be diagnostic.

hi, I read the articles, and I had read somewhere else as well that I should be giving him pancreas(pig) or enzymes made with or from pancreas, not prozyme. I do not know where to find pancreas and the enzymes sold at the store are all the same. i googled it and read that it was really hard to find, any thoughts? I have enzymes i have bin giving him but im pretty sure they are basiclly the same as prozyme.

Betty, I am hoping his pet insurance will cover it, fingers crossed! If not my mom can lend me the money or I can max out my visa......if he needs it he needs it but wow it never ceases to amaze me what a scam it is that vets charge so much!

Your situation is the very sort which drove me away from small animal medicine.

what do you do now if you dont mind me asking?