OK everyone, very interesting debate here. S&R is very new to Australia, I think there is only 4 or 5 very small units in the whole country, Ross has been interested in training a dog or two for this for the last few years but every lead turns out to be of no help.No one we have contacted down here seems to know much about how to start, which method to use or says no you can not learn by yourself you must join a club of some kind. We live in an area where tourists are always getting lost but no S&R dogs available. Over the years we have had two dogs who learned to track by playing hide and seek with kids, the dog stayed with the kid who was "up" and then helped find the others who were spread out over a few acres of bush and creeks. One was a male Dobe when my kids were small and the other a female shepherd just recently with my grandkids. If the kids were out playing in the bush and not home on time I could tell the Dobe to go find them and he would go and round them up and bring them home no matter how far away they were. The female shepherd was accidently locked outside the house yard one day and my 18 year old son and his mates had gone camping about 3 hours earlier in the day, she tracked them for 12-13kms up into the hills along water courses as well and turned up at their camp site quite happy and pleased with herself. Needless to say the boys were not happy to have to bring her all the way home. Pity she belonged to a friend and we were only raising her for him, she was a good working dog and plenty of prey drive and is now the mom of 9 pups all gone to the Aussie Air Force and all doing well in their training. Question: did the kids teach them to track through fun games or were they just naturals, or would any dog over time learn the same way. Also any suggestions on reading material etc about S&R ( can not find any over here) or any tips on how to get started would be greatfully recieved.
Dot

Hi, Dot. Sounds like you had a couple of great dogs! Your question is similar to mine....how much talent is innate vs. taught.
I bought a book that I found useful (actually bought it for leisure reading), "Ready! The Training of the Search and Rescue Dog" by Susan Bulanda, published by Doral Publishing. Barnesandnoble.com for $21.20 USA. It is on air scenting. The controversy on this topic seems to be tracking first vs. air scenting. Either way, it's an excellent book with many diagrams of wind patterns, trouble shooting, and covers all types of search sites (wilderness, cadaver, water, disaster, evidence, etc.). I found it to be very helpful and provides good coverage of the basics.

Hey all- jumping into this discussion late but here I go. I work with an ARDA unit and I started my female in SchH. I can tell you that it was very difficult to trasnfer her desire to have her nose to the ground to being semi up looking for an air scent. It took a bit of time and very well plannned out problems but we got her through it. Now she will occasionally revert to tracking on hot or stagnant days- which is fine- Dogs will revert to first imprint when stressed or confused. We have had a few people get operational in wilderness or USAR and then cross train in SchH, and they have not had a problem teaching a footstep track.

As for what you are looking for in a SAR dog, definately alot of prey drive. Size is not a major concern in a GSD but it should be aodg that you can carry out if need be so if you weigh 100 lbs, a 100lb dog may not be the best choice. You dont want a dog that will easily flip into defense or is overly sharp, alzheimers patients and confused lost people have been known to be nasty to the dogs and you dont want aodg that will "attack" in that situation.

Welcome aboard Ping and Dot.

GSDSAR- Thanks for responding. Some say learn to track, then learn to air scent; some say teach air scent first; some say track only; some say air scent only. So there are conflicting opinions from valid sources, it seems. If we're not doing SCH then will air scenting alone result in a good proportion of successes of finding lost people? Our area would be primarily wilderness searching. All that said, I'm really looking forward to viewing Ed's tracking video. What type of SAR do you do?

PSD's do "SAR" whether they like it or not at various times. My personal preference is to teach, and enforce, FST first (or a close approximation thereof) then allow the dog to do what, generally, "comes naturally" that is, use any and everything to find the person.

I base this belief...admittedly with no experience in doing the opposite...on my personal experience and my convictions thst if there is no air scent to find, the dog trained in FST first will drop his nose to the ground and hunt for track scent. (TTD and FST are newer terms for me, we always used the terms "trailing" or "tracking"...same thing)

GSDSAR's experience has not been the same as mine here. For me, I find that the dog will easily get into using air/high vegetation/wind scent if allowed to do so. The difficult part is the FST phase.

BTW...here in Florida, we do not have the luxury of high mountains where we can allow the dog to work updrafted air currents...picture 100 degrees+, stagnant swamp, no air moving at all, 90% humidity, and alzhiemers walk-off. NOW do you wonder about FST skills?

Pamela-

I do primarily wilderness although my girl is now starting her cadaver work. I am also awaiting the arrival of my new pup, who I hope to do Urban work with, as well as wilderness and water. I will start him in wilderness, runaways and basic scent cone work before I ever work him on the pile. You want to make sure the dog has a strong foundation in scent work and drive before throwing the rubble pile into the mix, although I will most likely let him get on the pile and walk around, but not work. Just remember that dogs will always fall back on their foundation so think about what you want from the dog before you jump into training.

If you are going to do mainly wilderness then working the dog in airscenting should do the trick. In most cases an airscenting dog will be able to find the victim. In bad weather, humid days with no breeze they try tracking, but that is generally okay. In a situation like that we allow the dog to do whatever he/she needs to do to find the victim.

If this is your first SAR prospect I would recommend getting together with a local SAR unit for help. Look around though and find one that has a training style and members that you can work with. If you want a wilderness dog I would also suggest the ARDA textbook mentioned earlier, it gives alot of good info on how scent travels and how the dogs works along with basic training steps. I am pretty sure it has a chapter on selecting a SAR dog. I have not seen Eds tape regarding tracking but if it like his others I am sure it will have a great deal of valuable information.

As for what Ikor said I am sure PSDs do a great job with both types of tracking and searching. I dont think there are any hard and fast rules regarding which to teach first, and as PSDs have shown, it can both ways.

Its kind of like the old saying "the only thing the first dog trainer and the second trainer agree on is what the third dog trainer is doing wrong". A good trainer can get a dog where it needs to go, but they all take different roots, so find a unit that you like and stick with it.

Good luck- let me know if I can be of any help.

Dot:

More books about SAR:

1."Ready to SERVE Ready to SAVE" by Susan Bulanda

a books of real rescue missions

2."CADAVER DOG HANDBOOK" by Andrew Rebmann, Edward David,and Marcella H. Sorg

I got them from the Amazon web book store

ping

When training a young dog start with FST with 100% positive methods. Your goal should be to just get to the end of the track, not precision like in Schutzhund. This provides a great base to move on to TTD and will give you a good idea as to your dogs abilities and tracking method. Remember your work must not be inhibitory in any way, especially if your dog is naturally air scenting and tracking.

At about a year old switch to TTD.

The #1 ability for a SAR dog is hunt drive. Prey drive can be a bonus if you are training with a toy reward, but it will not always carry a dog over a long track. Only the dog with monster hunt will work. Intense scenting behavior and focus on following a trail, either by airscenting, tracking, or both. (Both is best for the SAR dog.)

Later as part of your work in TTD you can easily progress to air scenting problems if the dog has a the ability (read as desire/drive to airsent).

That is the best way to work. Also you guys should read the Articles on this website about tracking and SAR that Ed has written. Many of your questions will be answered.

Thanks everyone, I guess I better get out the cheque book and start ordering books, that is if Ross has left me anything after buying a new BRT. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Dot