Back in the day, treatment was based on symptoms. Got this problem, take this drug.
There WERE monumental F-ups.
Today, it's amoral to give medicine without proof.
For just a simple fecal- a microscope, stains, a centrifuge --basic andcheap, but now immunologic Eliza tests too. To be perfect, need to do it all 3 days in a row. Plus we've got to have a CBC too. As the practice owner, you've got to convince every puppy owner who has 3 episodes of diarrhea to run all this to pay the wage of the capable tech--
That's why it costs such a fortune to do health care today IMO. Some clients demand perfection and can afford it. For others, a more "shoot from the hip" approach might be the answer. JMHO

 Quote: Mara Jessup

 Quote: Betty Landercasp

It's just that to me, it seems if you can pretty easily treat Giardia, then you don't have to even think about it anymore.

^^ This is kind of my opinion too.

When Vince got this last year, the vet just listened to his symptoms and given his experience with what dogs were presenting with in the area, time of year and known infested waters, he simply prescribed the flagyl.

I really appreciated the educated guess and cleared him up swish. Saved me a lot of poop transporting.

 Quote: betty landercasp

Back in the day, treatment was based on symptoms. Got this problem, take this drug.
There WERE monumental F-ups.
Today, it's amoral to give medicine without proof.
For just a simple fecal- a microscope, stains, a centrifuge --basic andcheap, but now immunologic Eliza tests too. To be perfect, need to do it all 3 days in a row. Plus we've got to have a CBC too. As the practice owner, you've got to convince every puppy owner who has 3 episodes of diarrhea to run all this to pay the wage of the capable tech--
That's why it costs such a fortune to do health care today IMO. Some clients demand perfection and can afford it. For others, a more "shoot from the hip" approach might be the answer. JMHO

Totally makes sense to me. Especially since I am not in Group 1-a ("can afford it").

WOw, you all were busy in less than a day.:-)

I was hoping at least for collecting samples for three days, that they would be able to be bagged, sealed, and make one trip to the vet. It doesn't sound that way. Although sending it off to the lab does, unless you have to send each day. Wow!

My regular vet feels that 5 days of Flagyl kills it, and the other vet we went to uses a lab, so she sends her giardia suspect cases to the lab. Then she uses 10 days of Flagyl.

At this point, I am dealing with my own costly health issues, and taking care of his issues too. I am not one to give unnecessary meds either, but in the essence of being able to afford one more thing, I would lean towards treating and seeing what happens. If it clears up, and comes back at a later date, maybe he was re-infected and it is time to go the way of testing. if it clears up and never comes back. Yippee!!! ANd if it doesn't clear up at all, then maybe testing then and definitely then looking at other causes.

So that leads me to...which way is the best, i.e., most effective, and least offensive to the dog's system in general. Panacur or Flagyl??? ALso keep in mind that my regular vet may or may not be willing to write a script or sell me Flagyl based on what he believes, and the other vet has no history with me to know that I do whatever the dog needs, it being in my power. SO she may feel that I am just trying to take the next best short-cut on care. I don't know at this point.

Also that he was just on 5 days of Flagyl, ending last week. WOuld he need a certian amount of time between that and panacur, or even a 10 day or longer round of flagyl?

So in essence my choice to do what I feel is best may be panacur anyway, but I would still like to know what is considered the best way to treat, and try for that way first. I know his dose of Flagyl is 500 mg twice a day, and that would be 10 days I guess. Panacur I don't know. I saw that it was in the dog catalog and the horse catalog, a lot less expensive to buy it dosed for a horse, but completely oblivious to how or if that is an option with dosing.

Thanks for the great discussion on this. Very helpful!

Panacur is 50mg/kg for dogs and for horses it is 5mg/kg for this type of treatment.
Yep 10x horse dose*





*
http://articledirectory.com/Art/435084/276/How-to-Choose-Between-Panacur-Paste-Granules-or-Liquid.html
http://www.ehow.com/way_5179884_liquid-panacur-dosage-dogs.html
http://www.ehow.com/about_5332374_panacur-wormer-granules-dogs.html


Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/22/2011 08:39 PM)
Edit reason: asterisk info added

 Quote: Ariane Gauthier

Panacur is 50mg/kg for dogs and for horses it is 5mg/kg for this type of treatment.
Yep 10x horse dose

Doesn't Panacur come in more than one form (maybe three?), with very different dosages? Or am I remembering wrong?

I was hoping that I woud find out that either of these would be a higher success rate. I guess this is a tough thing to kill.


There are several treatments for giardiasis, although some of them have not been FDA-approved for that use in dogs. Fenbendazole is an antiparasitic drug that kills some intestinal worms and can help control giardia. It may be used alone or with metronidazole. Metronidazole can kill some types of bacteria that could cause diarrhea. So if the diarrhea was caused by bacteria, and not Giardia, the bacteria can be killed and the symptoms eliminated. Unfortunately, metronidazole has some drawbacks. It has been found to be only 60-70% effective in eliminating Giardia from infected dogs, and probably is not 100% effective in cats, either. It can be toxic to the liver in some animals. It is suspected of being a teratogen (an agent that causes physical defects in the developing embryo), so it should not be used in pregnant animals. Finally, it has a very bitter taste and many animals resent taking it – especially cats.

Yes panacur come in different dosage. I had to treat Harley as a 660# horse. The paste seringe in graduated in horse weight. It is apple and cinnamon falvor. Dog comes in powder in beef flavor with bags of different volume depending on the dog weight.

Sorry, the paragraph in my post is from an article at Foster's and Smith.

Ok, vet ok'd a script for 40 5oo mg Flagyl. They will arrive MOnday. Before I even think of giving them, I will be watching poop closely for a bit yet. I have seen some really great poops since we pulled things from his diet. NOw whether they were allergies or intolerances.??? No matter really at this point if it works, it works, and we can try things back in if it does. Narrow it down a bit maybe.

Question here. I gave 5 days of Flagyl a short time ago. If we decide to dose with this again to impact a possible giardia infection, I had read about doing one round, then waiting for three weeks for a new "hatch" , then dosing again, but they were talking about panacur. But would that be a good idea with this? if we feel like we need to do it, wait three werks from the end of the 5 day round of flagyl? I also read to half the dose and give it twice as long the second time. Is this advisable?

I am still hoping I don't need it at all, and this will clear up with just some dietary changes. But in case we do....