Go to his profile and read his FIRST EVER POST on this board and I think it will be clear that he is just trying to stir up trouble.

I must say I am super impressed with one how easily you guys/ladies pick up on the difference between intelligent discussions and people with an agenda and two that more and more of you are treating this board like their home and letting people know that trouble makers are not welcome in your house.

You guys can either start fresh now and discuss legal concerns with protecting yourselves and your dog from dog aggressive dogs or we can close this thread and move on. I’ll wait and see what you guys decide.

Nice posts guys.

Anthony, I didn't change anything. I also didn't say the word aggressive, just running in my direction. If a dog is loose and moving in my direction he is toast. No waiting to see and no mercy. He will get yelled at first, with full dominate posture. If that doesn't work I spray (I use the bear stuff that shoots really -F-ing far). If that does not work to drive him away, then I'll shoot him. I just hope that I can do it fast enough. At that point it will most likely be too late, damage could already have been done.

Let me tell you why this is my policy. First I have lost a dog in this type of situation. There was no warning, a Rott just ran over an nailed my GSD who had barked at him. Second, I am not willing to take any further chances with my animals or myself. Third, and this is the most important. Dogs are not people, you can't accurately GUESS what their actions will be and they are not governed by any rules that make sense to most people. Even if they are approaching in an "apparently friendly" manner, they may not be, and even if they are, that can change in an instant. Your dog could trigger an aggressive response, or something that you do could trigger an aggressive response. Most of these dogs have not had training and most have never met up with a dog that would fight them. They haven't learned that their behavior is bad. In some extreme cases that could be wrong, and in that case you are in big trouble. Pitt bulls loose, high drive or guard driven dogs, overly dominate dogs, fear biters, whatever. Also most neighborhood dogs may think that you are invading their territory. Any number of things could go wrong, and some day they will. It is about being street smart. If you don't act before the dog closes, you have almost no chance of protecting yourself or your dog. Fractions of a second is what it takes. If you guys understood canine behavior a little better this wouldn't be an issue.

Now, if a Golden Retriever barks at me from his yard and runs up and down his yard am I going to go over an take him out? NO WAY. But, if he takes his little butt off of his yard and moves in my direction he is in for a fight. If he backs off, ok. If not. . . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

People that let their dogs run free are -F-ing A-holes. That is the real issue.

I am realistic and I will not tolerate being approached by a loose dog. If I have to defend my actions later then that is what I will do. My story will be this. The dog was loose and out of control, he ran toward me and my dog in an aggressive manner, I attempted to ward him off using whatever means that I could. There was no way for me to escape, retreat, or defend myself in any way, other than the actions I took. I wish that Mr. A-hole wouldn't have let his aggressive dog run loose. This never would have happened.

VanCamp... your argument that the legal standards should be different for dogs than people is EXCELLENT. The average person can not easily interpret the intentions of a strange dog while it is running toward them.

Dave Lilley wrote: "The average person can not easily interpret the intentions of a strange dog while it is running toward them."

That's right, and most people don't understand that. Some of the posts from the earlier thread clearly prove that statement.

There are plenty of dogs that will just give you a look and BAM its on. No hackles, no growling, no posturing- things that would be considered "normal" aggressive signals. They just run right over and bite, often with tail high or even wagging. Lots of Pitts attack without making a sound, I have heard that it is a part of their genetic make up. To most people, including some with experience (like me), that behavior is easily confused. In the second that it takes you to think about it, you or your dog could be fighting already.

Bad news buckaroos. . .

Vancamp how many raccoons have you shot for tearing up your dog? Tell the story about the unfortunate attack on your dog as you told it before. The rott belonged to a friend of the family. I posted before its a gray area when to react. For those of you who carry pepper spray I think it offers a false sense of security. I know if I used it the odds are that it will blow back in my face like snow blowing. Where I live I have never seen a problem with loose dogs. You may see one or two in the park but the owner is not far behind. On the other hand when visiting my parents in Florida. I was followed by a pack of abandoned dogs. I would cross the street they would cross it was an eerie feeling. I would really feel uncomfortable walking a dog their on a daily basis. I could see John Cochran(spelling) representing the poor devastated family that abandoned the dog years ago for some sort of restitution if someone would happen to kill the dog.

Milt

OK, OK, I have to admit that I have never had the guts to shoot one of those little SOBs. There have been a few times that I wished I had my shotgun with me so that I could. They patrol all over my property as soon as the sun goes down. Yucky. . .

I'll go find the post and re-post it. Hold on. . .

I live in rural area and unfortunately; the problem of abandoned dumped dogs breeding with the coyotes is a real problem. This produces a "Coy" which has no fear of humans. Packs of these animals can be very dangerous to not only humans but lifestock as well. Whenever I walk my property and into the woods; I carry a gun for protection. On one occasion; I did come upon a pack of dogs that were obviously not someone's running at large pets and shot into the ground to scare them off. However; if that had not worked; I was prepared to do what it took to protect myself.
Occasionally; there will be a single dog wander onto my property but a few yells of "get out of here" sends them back down the driveway. In one instance; I found a beagle dog within my barn chowing down on cat food. He had a collar with tags and I personally took him home to his elderly owner who then promised that he would not shoot any of my dogs if they ever got out and wandered onto his property. On another occasion a coon hound decided to camp in the barn on a cold rainy night. I tied him up, fed and watered and contacted his owners to come get him.
Sure..I took a chance with these strange dogs but I presented myself in a nonthreating manner and approached with a positive caring attitude. Not all loose dogs are a threat but some can be and appropriate protection is necessary.

Taken from the thread 'How do I protect my dog?'

I posted this story to illustrate how quickly something bad can happen and how innocuous it can seem at that exact moment. The situation was a total surprise to me, a shock really. There wasn't a bunch of growling or snarling, no blood on the pavement, nothing like anyone would expect a real dog fight to be like. I hate that memory, I hate what happened, and I hate that my response was so futile and naive. I will never let that happen again. Take all my money, take my business, whatever. I can go bankrupt for all I care. I felt like a victim, not a geat sensation at a young age (17 I think, don't remember exactly)

"In 1994 I was walking one of my dogs, a 13yr old GSD female, we came across a neighborhood Rottweiler belonging to FORMER friends of the family. They had let the dog out in the front yard to wiz. The two dogs saw each other and the rott charged us. I had NO experience with dog fights. I grabbed my dog and tried to hold her away from the other dog. The rott bit her on the side of the neck and would not let go. I kicked, hit, and finally grabbed the dog by his collar and one back leg. I tried to break his leg and he let go. The owner finally got there and grabbed her dog. The whole thing took about three seconds. She said calmly in a silly voice "bad doggy, bad doggy." (No Shit) I yelled at her for about a minute while I checked my dog out. She had small punctures around her neck but no major holes, I thought she was OK. Then we walked the 100 yards home. I didn't even listen to the woman's remarks. When we got into my yard Kyra collapsed. Long story short, she died of internal bleeding, in my car, on the way to the vets house. I blame myself. And on that happy note, let me say: BE VIGILANT AND READY. This story is 100% true, wish it wasn't."

I want to add that the Rottweiler released the bite because its owner ran over and helped, not because I was pulling on it's leg like an idiot.

I am not at all afraid to talk about my feelings, I was devistated by what had happened. I wised up real quick. So you can take my advice with a grain of salt if you want to, I am more than biased.

I did not intend to post here again, after seeing the anger my original post caused. However, I really hate to see someone else taking heat on account of my post. I think the entire disagreement is due to us addressing different questions. As Dave correctly said, I think many of you make great arguments for what the law should be (when you’re not busy insulting me). My post only addressed what the law currently is, not what it should be. It’s a sad reality that many, many laws are not what they should be. Anyone seriously researching it will find that my statements were accurate. However, it makes it trickier to agree because you can imagine one small detail slightly differently like a snarl or the dog running at you aggressively and reach a different result. I think my general statement of law was mistaken for being my endorsement of it. (We are using the term "law" for convenience, but much of this is actually is a question of fact to which the law is then applied).

This board reaches many people. If you are unhappy with current laws that don’t tend to look kindly on preemptive strikes, draw attention to it and create awareness that preemptive strikes are reasonable. You may be right that most judges/lawyers are unaware of the real life danger. I’m very sincere when I say that I have no agenda, and I don't think the latter poster did either. My apologies if my posts appeared to be advancing an agenda.

Torre