Anne Jones Webboard User Reg: 04-29-2004
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Quote: ross rapoport
Yeah everyone I know says that I shouldn't be letting Roger win our tug battles, which frequently leave me with black-and-blue marks, scratches, and nicks from his teeth.
Then I ask them, "What would your dog do if an intruder entered your home?" Their answer is always "lick their face" or something along those lines.
Just because a dog will bite a tug,bite suit or sleeve does not insure that the dog will stand up to an intruder or has any true fight drive. Many dogs can look VERY intense & impressive while working in prey drive, but will head for the hills if really confronted with a person ready to due harm to them (the dog).Evenmoreso someone without any equipment on for the dog to target.
Jennifer, prey bites hurt as much as a defensive bite. Do you think that prey dogs won't bite someone? I know a cop who's dog has multiple apprehensions,the dogs a beast and LIVES in prey mode, just how the dog is.
Reg: 12-12-2010
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that's a good point Anne..I've been out of the PPD world for awhile...how do you guys evaluate that?
My old club practiced around several scenarios that they developed for the police K9 competitions -they would also set up private "home invasion" exercises..
Anne Jones Webboard User Reg: 04-29-2004
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Loc: Northeast
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Most people working dogs in PP usually set up different scenarios/exercises to test the dogs. Home invasions are one way, also.
Like Al said some dogs work mostly in prey but still have that drive for the fight in them to hold them on task in a comfrontation. Dogs can bring a mix to the table & still do the job. Depends on the individual dog. The dog also needs a high level of confidance to do PP.
I just wanted to make the point that just 'cause a dog will bite & play rough with a tug or sleeve; one cannot assume that they will step up & protect in you real life.
Ross,
Please don't hi-jack someone elses thread.
If you want to talk about bite, fight, prey and ppd's could you start your own thread......Please.....
This thread was a question on genetics. Not training, not how to read the dog and not on how all the drives work together. It WAS a thread on genetics.
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005
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Loc: North-Central coast of California
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... and back to:
Quote: Brad Higgs
Outside of bitework, how much does gentics have to do with drive and working ability? I'm curious if you can build really good drive with any dog or take any dog to top level obedience or do you need to get the right dog genetically? Wondering because it seems that there's only a few breeds that do anything e.g coliies etc for agility, mals shepherds rotts etc for bite sports. I know there's a few more breeds coming into these things but they're a rarity and am wondering if it's the breeds themselves or it's the people that get these other breeds that don't want to do this stuff? Could you obedience title a Chihuaha (no idea how to spell it) for example?
Most people working dogs in PP usually set up different scenarios/exercises to test the dogs. Home invasions are one way, also.
I'm curious; would a PP dog react differently if not in the presence of the handler when a situation arose?
I imagine you can't train self preservation out of the dog so would he lose his motivation to protect property if no one were home?
And staying with the OP's genetics question is there a way to test how strong the drive of self preservation is in an individual dog or breed? As you may have guessed; I do not have PP dog experience.
My first dog was a Shih Tzu I got back in '74. While still in college I got a CD on Benji with a 1st, 2nd & 4th in three straight trials. (First dog I ever trained/showed). We didn't go further because this was still the 'yank & crank' philosophy and he would NOT hold a dumbbell, no matter how hard I pinched his ear. So we dropped it after the CD.
We could have gone MUCH further if marker training had been popular.....
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Re: Genetics or Training?
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